Clarification of the Coolant Self Bleeding Kit

["therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas@xxxx>]

There are no wrong answers here by anyone in this debate! But just to make 
sure that everyone here is understanding about the the benefits, and myths of 
the the purpose of the Self Bleeding kit, let me put everything into perspective 
for those who are still wondering if they should buy the kit, and just what does 
it really do?


As everyone can already guess, the purpose of the Self Bleeder Kit is to 
automaticly remove any air bubbles that will get trapped in the cooling system 
whenever it is freshly filled with coolant. Now this may not sound like much, 
but when you have 18 feet of cooling hoses and pipes to fill, you'll quickly 
realize that bleeding the system is no easy task. On a traditional front engine 
car, there are typicly only two high points in the cooling system: The 
Thermostat housing, and the radiator cap. Compared with the DeLorean of 
course, which routes hoses up and down throughout the entire car. So 
bleeding the system is no easy task. On other cars, the process is usually 
fairly easy: Remove the bleeder screw/plug, fill with coolant until it runs out of 
the housing, replace the screw/plug, and then top-off the radiator. DeLoreans 
are not quite so easy.

When you've got hoses that have highpoints in both the front, and rear of the 
car, you need water pressure to push those bubbles back to the thermostat 
housing, where you can get them out of the system. And this presents two 
unique problems: 1. when you are bleeding the system, you're taking out 
coolant. If you drain out too much all at one time, the Expansion Tank will 
become empty, and when it becomes empty, you'll suck bubbles back into the 
system, and need to start all over again. 2. It can be a messy process. You've 
got to collect coolant in a clean bucket, and then return it back into the system. 
But you can't pop the radiator cap until the engine is cool. Otherwise you'll get 
the same problem that you'd have if you tried to remove the radiator cap while 
running the car to try and return the coolant directly back into the system. The 
engine heats up, opens the thermostat, and will blow out coolant that you just 
added back in. So when you have something as simple as the Self Bleeder 
installed, it makes you're job much easier, and quicker. Even my mechanic 
states that to fully bleed, and purge the system of all air, they budget in a full 
hour for the DeLorean, unlike other cars.

With the Bleeder Kit installed, All I do is this: 1. Fill the system up with coolant. 
2. Squeeze both hoses on either side of the Water Pump until air bubbles no 
longer appear in the Expansion Tank. 3. Turn the heater all the way up, and 
run the motor until the motor has heated up a little past the 2nd white line. 4. 
Kill the engine, wait for the motor to cool down, and top off the level in the 
expansion tank if nessisary. That's it. But there is another little fact that I didn't 
realize until I started to break out my various manuals to research things for 
this post. Not only does the Volvo 760 with the PRV V6 engine follow these 
exact same instructions for bleeding, but the car even comes with the same 
exact hose setup from the Self Bleeder Kit! Except, Volvo calls this a "Vent 
Hose". In addition, the thermostat housing does NOT have a bleeder screw 
assembly like the DeLorean. The Vent Hose, just like the Self Bleeder hose 
takes care of the air removal from the Cooling System. And both are mounted 
to the highest points on of the cooling system to bleed the air out. So if Volvo, 
who used the exact same engine, and positive pressure cooling system on 
their cars deemed this kind of a set up nessisary enough to install on their 
own production cars, then obviously there is something here that DeLoreans 
should consider, if not follow suit entirely.


HOWEVER, EVERY ONE HERE SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF SOMETHING!

David Teitelbaum is exactly correct when he says that the Self Bleeder Kit 
should *NOT* be used and treated as the end-all, be-all solution for 
overheating problems. If your car is constantly over heating and/or you have 
to keep adding coolant in at ANY interval, then you have a cooling system 
problem that MUST be fixed! Aside from the unessisary expenses of paying 
for additional coolant, there are of course the enviornmental issues, as well as 
poison issues for animals. But specificly, lets take a look at the damage you 
will cause to your car. All these senarios will also involve you overheating the 
motor because you forgot to fill it up with coolant, and thus become stranded, 
and possibly having a blown motor; Best case senario, you've got a leaky 
hose, or pipe under the car. Here you'll have corroded pipes (antifreeze 
trapped between the rubber hose and pipe will rot the aluminium), possible 
frame damage, stained garage floor. A bit worse, you have a leaky hose 
behind the water pump. This will then cause the expose coolant to become 
corrosive, and can start eating a hole thru the aluminium engine block, slowly, 
but surely. Worst case of all, you've got a leaky head gasket, and end up 
running water thru the engine, and rust it from the inside out. None of these 
problems are simple ones, and the replacement costs for the damage done in 
all senarios is far more expensive than the the fees involved to repair the 
original issues to prevent the consequences.


So in the end, I myself would consider the Self Bleeder Hose a nessisary 
upgrade for the car. You may not *technicly* need it if you choose to bleed the 
system the "old fashioned" way. But if there is a better mousetrap available, 
why not use it? BUT, more importantly, properly testing, and verifying that your 
cooling system is in proper working, and DEPENABLE order is indeed far 
more important. The Self Bleeder hose should be regared as more of a tool in 
helping you maintain your car, rather than a fix for it. But I'd still reccomend it 
to everyone on the list here.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty@xxxx> wrote:
> Just because a person isn't handy with tools doesn't mean they 
> shouldn't understand the consequences of their decisions. If people 
> choose to install the bleeder kit they must understand that it is 
> really only a band-aid, the underlying problem still remains and will 
> probably get worse. If an owner isn't handy (and many aren't) there 
> are still ways to get the leaks fixed. As for getting stuck the best 
> way to make sure it won't happen is to fix the car the right way in 
> the first place! People that ignore symptoms and never go to the 
> doctor aren't making good decisions, by time you are "carried in" it 
> is usually much harder to treat, costs more, and takes longer. Same 
> goes for your Delorean. If you think it is expensive to maintain the 
> cooling system find out what it will cost when you overheat your 
> engine and have to rebuild it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound 
> of cure besides many of us that are "handy" enjoy working on the car, 
> it's paying for the parts that we don't always enjoy.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dherv10@xxxx wrote:
> > David, I will agree with you to a certain extent. But, Everyone 
> isn't as good 
> > with tools and bleeding as you and I are and some don't like messing 
> with 
> > wrenches at all. 
> > This is like the Hot Start relay, when DMC Joe jumped on me because 
> of