To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator@xxxxxxxxxxx
To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. PJ Grady Steering Column Bushing
From: Senatorpack@xxxxxx
2. Trailing Arm and a heart attack
From: "dsscid" <shain@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
3. Re: Re: Lights Staying on...
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
4. Common repair costs?
From: "dmcburn75" <dmcburn75@xxxxxxxxx>
5. cooler engine/better acceleration
From: "dmc812001" <dmc812001@xxxxxxxxx>
6. Re: Re: Gauges
From: hugo mederos <miami5606@xxxxxxxxx>
7. ETDOC Meeting
From: "Willie Mack" <wmack@xxxxxx>
8. Re: Porsche engine options (long)
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
9. Re: E-CHECK
From: Bob Brandys <BobB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
10. Re: exhaust leaks?
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
11. Gray vinyl Die
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
12. Re: E-CHECK
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
13. Re: Common repair costs?
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
14. On the topic of AC blowers...
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
15. Re: Trailing Arm and a heart attack
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
16. Re: Re: Not so hot start problem
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
17. Re: E-CHECK
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
18. Re: E-CHECK
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
19. Another Yahoo Outage Friday 3/15
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
20. RE: steering column play
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
21. Re: On the topic of AC blowers...
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
22. Re: ETDOC Meeting
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs@xxxxxxx>
23. Re: Re: Not so hot start problem
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
24. Re: Trailing Arm and a heart attack
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
25. Re: Gray vinyl Die
From: "Flash" <flash66@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:58:29 EST
From: Senatorpack@xxxxxx
Subject: PJ Grady Steering Column Bushing
PJ Grady installed their New Bushing in my former 1981. No more noises, just
peaceful engine revs from behind.
Best Wishes,
Michael Pack
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:33:40 -0000
From: "dsscid" <shain@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Trailing Arm and a heart attack
Hello,
Today i was trying to spend some time and check my ground wires on ym
car to see if any were loose. When i was going to remove the
passenger side trailing arm cover i notcied that someone else had
already been in there (by the 2 broken bolts in the rivnuts). When i
had the panel off i notcied that someone beat me to cleaning up the
ground there, but had removed my trailing arm bolt. When they did
was replace it with a threaded stud, and i also have 6 washers on the
outside with a nut on the end. So i really have no bolt i guess,
just a nut. All my drawings and pictures show a bolt. I can't
believe i have been driving around with it like this the whole time.
So now i have to go order some bolts and go through the process of
removing the rear suspension to replace the bolts. I now have
something to do on my vacaction now.
- Shain
#10140
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:02:56 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Lights Staying on...
When you all get tired of playing around with those awful courtesy light
switches on the doors then its time to upgrade to my capacitive proximinity
switch system. $150 for the system. I've had it on my car now for two years
without a single problem. Check my web site for complete installation
directions to see if this project is for you.
http://www.personal.picusnet.com/dsontos/
> The door switches in the front door jambs are supposed to have little
> rubber covers on the ends that hit the doors as they close. On many
> cars that I have seen they are either missing or worn. When they
> aren't in good shape they don't move the switch all of the way in to
> shut off the lights or maybe the lights blink on and off as you drive
> because the doors shake a little.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:33:15 -0000
From: "dmcburn75" <dmcburn75@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Common repair costs?
[MODERATOR NOTE - This topic is covered extensively in the archives. Anyone wanting to reply may wish to do it directly to dmcburn75(AT)yahoo.com. Also, the vendors' web pages make looking up parts prices pretty easy.]
Hi all. I know this could be a little personal to some people and some
may not want to answer. But, its comming down to the wire for me and
my DeLorean purchase. I was wondering if you guys could post some of
the common problems you have had and how much it costs to fix...hot
start, fuel pump, alternator, brakes, cooling system, frame POR-15
coating, electrical and anything else anyone has come across... I
understand a DeLorean is an older car and the cost to keep it up will
be higher than normal. Again, thanks guys all this info is greatly
appreciated.
-Dan
NY
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0000
From: "dmc812001" <dmc812001@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: cooler engine/better acceleration
[MODERATOR NOTE - this one is barely passing my snake-oil spam filter, but it seems like a genuine posting from a real list-member. Do your research before dumping anything other than oil in your engine. Miracles rarely occur - dave]
Hi All,
This is not an ad for a product, however I did try something that
really worked well and I thought i'd share it with all of you. When i
first pruchased my Delorean (Aug.2001) I had seen an info-mercial for
something called Z-Max, it was a treatment for your
engine/transmission/fuel system, and it had something called Lynkite
in it, which was something I had heard about. I bought it figuring
i'd try it on my Delorean. I followed the directions and used the
product and i really didn't notice much, except my transmission
shifted a little smoother. I figured "oh well" and put it out of my
mind. Two weeks ago i recieved a package in the mail, It was that Z-
Max stuff again. I guess they send it to you twice a year or
something. Since the car was running well, and the oil was only
recently changed, along with a tune up- I thought , ok lets try it
again.
I used all the products again and within two days, i felt a
difference. The engine was running much cooler than before with the
needle barely moving off 120degrees,and i also noticed an improvement
in accelleration. I used my stopwatch and noticed a several tenths
difference in my 0-60 times. Apparently,this second treatment worked
better, because the car ran so much better, and even a little
quieter. I'm not endorsing the product, all i am saying is that it
seems to have worked for my Delorean, and since we are all looking
for better performance from our Deloreans, I just thought i'd pass it
on. Thanks..
Sincerely,
Steve T.
#2801
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:41:23 -0800 (PST)
From: hugo mederos <miami5606@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Gauges
What kind of job does this intel on replacing it?
Having it back lit or white out on the gauge would be great.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:43:13 -0500
From: "Willie Mack" <wmack@xxxxxx>
Subject: ETDOC Meeting
Wow!! I had a great time this weekend. Aaron, Darren, Sean, Scott, and Joe
all of you guys thanks for all the help and info you gave me this weekend.
We had the opportunity to run our D's on the dyno. Sean had the top speed
at 160 mph. I think everyone averaged around 100 horsepower in the engine
and 120 at the wheels.
Sunday we took our cars down the tail of the dragon. For those of you that
have never heard of it, it is an 11 mile stretch of road that has 318 turns
in it. Check out www.tailofthedragon.com Which i think Sean could have set
a new speed record if it hadn't been for a stupid ford pickup. It was such
an awesome sight to see D's everywhere on the road, zipping up the
switchbacks and through the turns.
I was just overwhelmed at what a great weekend I had.
Congrats to all the ETDOC members, and I look forward to seeing you all
again soon.
Willie Mack
Vin 5043
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/wmack
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:49:09 EST
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Porsche engine options (long)
In a message dated 3/9/02 1:14:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< As for the Porsche 928 V8 engine, this is an aluminum block V8 ranging
from early 4.5L with 220hp (US) and 300hp (Euro spec) to the later
model 5.4L with 345hp (using the same external dimension size block).
Although this is an aluminum block engine, it is by no means lighter
than Ford or Chevy V8 engines. >>
Funny, but one of the things I've seen 928 owners do is swap out the stock
928 engine for a Chevy V8. One of the reasons is cost to keep the 928 V8
going. They're trying to get rid of it and some of us have had thoughts of
putting it in!
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:39:30 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: E-CHECK
Why did your car fail? Idle test? High Rpm test?
CO test?
HC?
Depending on reason for failing I can make suggestions.
BOB
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:53:52 EST
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: exhaust leaks?
In a message dated 3/9/02 9:23:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chaparral2a002@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< Also, those studs
and nuts have been on there for 20 years, I can't beleive they would come
off with out breaking. >>
The studs will probably come out without breaking, but in most instances will
take the aluminum threads with them.....At least that was my experience with
my valve cover bolts..
Jim 6147
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:06:05 EST
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
Subject: Gray vinyl Die
Hi,
I have my console removed while installing a CD player and would like to
fix some discoloration on the armrest section near the ash tray. It had a
stain on it when I got the car so I lightly used acetone on it but that just
seemed to removed some of the gray die. Does anyone know of a die that is a
good match? Please drop me an e-mail if you do.
Thanks
David
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:24:12 EST
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: E-CHECK
In a message dated 3/11/02 6:28:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jason@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< n Ohio I
have to get an E-Check (Emissions check) done..... and to my horror
it Failed.. has any one got any pointers out there. >>
Dare I say EFI.......:-)
Mine passed Ohio e-check with room to spare. Luckily they didn't have the
vaguest idea of what they were looking at under the hood... I've since
replaced everything upstream of the heads and still feel I'll pass e-check
again without a problem. You could always register it as a collector by mail
in Columbus and there'll be no e-check requirement.
Jim 6147
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:35:43 EST
From: jwit6@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Common repair costs?
In a message dated 3/11/02 7:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dmcburn75@xxxxxxxxx writes:
<< was wondering if you guys could post some of
the common problems you have had and how much it costs to fix.. >>
Anything you touch will either break or need to be replaced. Anything that
works will probably not work much longer (Especially if you touch anything
around it). Anything that doesn't work will need to be replaced, and probably
doesn't work because something it's dependent on doesn't work either. I've
touched a lot of stuff on my car, and the more I touch, the more it
costs.... :-)
Seriously, these are fun cars, unique in thier engineering solutions to
problems that most other manufacturers have found more elegant ways of
solving. But you won't find a car with as much appeal or personality for what
it will cost you in the end if you do it intelligently.
Jim 6147
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:32:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: On the topic of AC blowers...
When I got my car, fan speeds 1 and 2 didn't work. Don at Garden Grove
fixed it (along with a slew of other things), but now the same speeds are
not working. 3 and 4 work just fine, but sometimes I need something in
between 0 and 3.
Any ideas on what my problem might be? As I recall it was an easy fix
(both time and money) previously.
-Christian
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:39:29 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm and a heart attack
Shain - This is what I would call "living life on the edge"! With
threaded studs in place of the proper bolts, you have had what we call
"threads in bearing". This can cause grooves and gouges in the
bushings and other inserts in the trailing arm joint. You may want to
carefully inspect the bores through the trailing arms, and the sleeves
through the rubber bushings. I would guess that it would be a good
idea to have the alignment checked after you install the correct bolts
and other hardware in there. The proper large flat washers are also
important in the joint to act as a secondary load path in case
something else should fail, like the rubber bushing attachments bolts.
Check out the "TOBY-TAB" bolt kits being offered through Specialty
Automotive (Darryl Tinnerstet) at http://www.delorean-parts.com for
the best replacement bolts you can get. We're glad to hear that you
survived intact from this potential disaster.
Toby Peterson VIN 2248
Winged1
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "dsscid" <shain@xxxx> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> had the panel off i notcied that someone beat me to cleaning up the
> ground there, but had removed my trailing arm bolt. When they did
> was replace it with a threaded stud, and i also have 6 washers on
the
> outside with a nut on the end. So i really have no bolt i guess,
> just a nut.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:15:14 EST
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re: Not so hot start problem
In a message dated 3/11/02 3:33:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> What do you mean by "adjusting the idle screws"? The 3 brass screws
> are supposed to be lightly closed period
David, I am talking about the idle mixture screw on the air flow sensor arm.
Walt, I'm certain that the recent adjustment resulted in the unmasking of
this concern because I set the screw right a few months ago and found that it
did it then too but I put it back rich so I could address other issues. And
I think you're right about the cold start injector not operating when it
should. Now, what about this business about it not "hunting" for idle after
started cold? How does this figure in? What is it symptomatic of, not
slightly over rich on cold start?
Thanks, Don VIN 6860
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:16:45 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: E-CHECK
Jason, You may have to replace the 02 sensor then have the CO adjustment
done. That is the adjustment on the air flow meter.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/fuelsystems.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: E-CHECK
There are many reasons why you could have failed your emision test.
When the PRV-6 is properly tuned up and running it is an exceptionaly
clean running engine. Start with the basics, it might be time for a
tune-up replacing the spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, fuel
filter. Do an oil change and replace the oil filter. Check the
ignition timming and make sure there are no vacuum leaks. If that
doesn't get you to pass then you will have to go to a shop that has an
exhaust gas analyzer and have them adjust the mixture screw as per the
Workshop manual. Since you are a brand new owner if you don't yet have
the manual it should be 1 of the first things on your list of items
that you order from one of the Delorean venders. Also make sure the
gas tank is filled with FRESH fuel as stale fuel won't burn well. Some
parts stores sell additives that guarantee you will pass testing, I
never have tried them but they do claim to work!
Also make sure you hear the frequency valve buzzing like an angry
hornet on the right side valve cover, if it isn't that could be the
problem.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "jason3625" <jason@xxxx> wrote:
> Great Wise ones.... I just purchsed my D over the weekend and went
> to get the paperwork done and since there is a Title change in Ohio
I
> have to get an E-Check (Emissions check) done..... and to my horror
> it Failed.. has any one got any pointers out there. I do not want
> to have to drive it to any ole mechanic and I am very apt on working
> on my own cars but have never had an emission issue ever.... the
tech
> said that it was not burning all the fuel. Any suggestions
>
> Thanks All
>
> Jason Jones
> #3121
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:04:41 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Another Yahoo Outage Friday 3/15
At least this time with a warning.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yahoo! Groups" <yahoogroups_notification@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ygroups-status@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: [ygroups-status] Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST
(GMT-8)
Dear Yahoo! Groups Members,
The Yahoo! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance
Friday, March 15, 9:00 PM PST (GMT-8) as we move our servers to a new
facility. We expect the service to be restored the morning of Sunday
March 17.
During this time the web site will be unavailable and email will not
be delivered. (Some users may experience email non-delivery notices
while the service is down, but all email should be delivered once
service is resumed.) Please note: once the service is restored, there
will be email delays due to backlog. We expect these delays to last
no longer than 1 day. Please do not re-send email to your group as
this will only add to delays.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
The Yahoo! Groups Team
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:05:38 -0800
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: steering column play
Jason - sounds like you need a new steering column bushing. Originals were a soft rubber and fail prematurely. I manufacture replacements out of tough Delrin plastic. Check my web site for cost and ordering info.
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA
www.delorean-parts.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:48:15 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: On the topic of AC blowers...
Christian, On speed 3 and 4 the voltage/current goes the circuit breaker (
#21 ) 35 amp next to the fan CB. Check the CB and all the connections.Replace
it and check the wires. The location is on the site under Talk & View, relay
page.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/talk_relaycomp.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 22
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:39:46 +0000
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: ETDOC Meeting
And the meets keep getting better and better. Starting off in Knoxville
where we had 5 of the cars ran on a dyno; Sean took the top honors with 160
mph. Mine was the only automatic to give it a run, gave it up at 137 with 79
hp...massive there. Of course, it's hard to get a true read on an
automatic, but still not real bad on the top end. From there we gave a
caravan over to Gatlinburg (no, Smoky Joe made it with absolutely no
problems, for everyone who knows the story) We all had a great time that
night at dinner, then later on at the pool. Some stayed there, others went
their separate ways for the evening, but the next morning it was on; 9 cars
converged on the Park Vista (I love the little girl passing by saying
"Mommy, why do they all look alike?) There were cars from NC, SC, TN, Va,
and I believe I saw one from GA..and one Corvette. But we didn't hold that
against him. From there we took down through Gatlinburg where we attempted
to get gas. 9 DeLoreans not only created massive stares, but also massive
traffic jams. It was not fun to get them all back out in one line, but with
a little help from John Weaver blocking the way, soon we were on our merry
trip. We stopped for a great group shot (breathtaking, as Aaron described
it, is an understatement) and from there on, we hit the dragon.. For anyone
who has not experienced it firsthand, the dragon cannot be completely summed
in words. This is my second time with the ETDOC going through the dragon,
and it's hard on the body, even with an automatic. Going through one banked
hairpin turn into a completely reverse angle, for 11 miles. And, as we
learned this time around, don't have ANYTHING you don't want to end up in
your lap in the front with you. Cameras, cell phone, CDs...yeah, they all
ended up in my floorboard. And we lost the corvette there. For a few
minutes at least. After a few minutes catching our breath, some of us split
off and headed back to NC, (and I almost hit a canadian goose) and the
others went back to Knoxville for dinner. Again, I would like to thank
Aaron, Sean, and everyone else involved in the planning. These keep getting
better and better! Maybe a late summer/ early fall dragon run would be a
good idea?
Scott
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:04:55 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re: Not so hot start problem
Don, When the TTS is working correctly it activates the cold start to inject
gas to start the car when it's cold or under 95 degree F. Then, till the 02
sensor warms up, the Lambda unit is sending out a fixed pulse to the
Frequency valve to hold the gas pressure steady in the lower chamber of the
fuel distributor ( richer )( You should have no seeking at this point. ) ,
then when the 02 sensor heats up and starts measuring the air/fuel mixture,
the Lambda unit starts adjusting the fuel pressure to the lower chamber of
the fuel distributor to adjust the mixture. Now is when If your seeking a lot
the Air flow meter is fighting against the mixture to go rich then lean.
Adjust the air flow meter when the engine is hot and idling to obtain the
best smooth idling. That will be close. Best results is with an emissions
tester.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/
<< Now, what about this business about it not "hunting" for idle after
started cold? How does this figure in? What is it symptomatic of, not
slightly over rich on cold start? >>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:17:42 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm and a heart attack
Shain, I had a similar situation with the Pivot bolt on the standard
transmission. I found no apparent damage and replaced it with the up grade
and have had no trouble in the past 5 years. As for the TAB, that goes to
show you and the group the standard 10.9 grade bolt isn't as bad as a lot of
people let on to be after all, it takes the abuse and keeps on going. My 10.9
were bent and loose as I thought they would be but not broken so I replaced
them with the 12.9 up grade and the rear end feels much tighter. I would
defiantly check for any damage, but soft metal rubbing on soft metal may not
have done as much as you thought. Just depends on time.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/bodyparts.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 25
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:55:06 -0500
From: "Flash" <flash66@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Gray vinyl Die
check out www.leatherique.com
-Paul #16811
----- Original Message -----
From: <Delorean17@xxxxxxx>
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: [DML] Gray vinyl Die
> Hi,
> I have my console removed while installing a CD player and would like
to
> fix some discoloration on the armrest section near the ash tray. It had a
> stain on it when I got the car so I lightly used acetone on it but that
just
> seemed to removed some of the gray die. Does anyone know of a die that is
a
> good match? Please drop me an e-mail if you do.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Back to the Home of PROJECT VIXEN