Hmmm... Here's my take on this. I agree with Ryan on a lot of issues (although moderation is definitely not one of them) and I think he is a very decent, intelligent guy. Marc is also clearly intelligent, though a little quick to jump into controversy sometimes. All the same, I see that as nothing to hold against him. So let it be known that I have no axe to grind with anyone here, nor have I been in private contact with anyone here (in the last 4-6 months). However, on this one, it sure looks to me like most of the facts that Marc states below are more or less accurate. As far as I see it, the motivation to ban Marc from posting is far from a public mandate and sure seems on the surface to be in violation of the rules quoted by Marc below. I suppose that if my actions in this post are in violation to a forum rule (do forum politics count?), I'll happily leave it alone here, but I think what Marc brings up below bears discussion. Thoughts? Regards, Jon Heese Kevin Abato wrote: > All: I am forwarding this message on behalf of Marc Levy due to the fact > that he can no longer post here without moderation (see message below for > details on why). I personally do not follow the forums closely and the > facts, topics, and views in the following message are Marc's and not my own. > > > > <Snip --- FROM MARC --- Snip> > >> Forum Members: >> >> What has Walt's "Freedom of speech" forum become? >> >> Please read this entire message. I know it is long >> winded. >> >> Most of us here joined an UN-MODERATED mailing list >> for DeLorean owners and enthusiasts. Things were >> going well until Walt made a critical mistake. He >> entrusted Greg with the power of "ownership" in the >> list. This mistake later resulted in Greg removing >> Walt as a member, and action which was never >> discussed >> with Walt. Greg essentially "took over" the list on >> his own. Walt wrote to me about this and said >> "looks >> like Greg has fucked me too". >> >> No one much noticed, or cared. Walt was not >> participating much in the list, and Greg continued >> to >> run things the way they had always been... Until >> one >> day he decided we were loosing too many members (in >> HIS opinion) when the list got on to a non-DeLorean >> topic. Specifically, Politics and Religion. What >> to >> do? September 15. 2005 he created 2 polls asking >> the >> members their opinion on allowing politics and >> religion on the forum. The polls can be found at: >> >> > <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335588> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335588 >> > <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335590> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335590 >> I, Being a moderator of the list, was vocal against >> any censorship or rules that limited free speech. >> >> As all of this was happening, Greg decided to make >> Ryan a moderator. Seemed like a good choice, being >> that they tended to be on the "same side" of most of >> our discussions. >> >> So, the vote is called based on Ryan's >> interpretation: >> We will not allow politics and religion, and he >> came >> up with a set of "rules". >> >> > <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/30562> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/30562 >> Shortly after, I was banned for having a discussion >> ABOUT the rules. There was no discussion of >> religion >> or politics, but as soon as I publicly disagreed >> with >> Ryan and Greg I was booted off. >> >> >> I reluctantly returned to the Forum, through much >> persuasion of other members. >> >> So, a few months later here we go again! >> >> Ryan is not happy with simply ruling the DMC Forum, >> He >> wants to rule all internet communications about >> DeLoreans. So much so, that he HAS abused his >> current >> power to again censor the outspoken (in this case, >> me). Without warning, he removed my ability to post >> to the list. >> >> My "rule braking" message can be found here: >> >> > <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/34107> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/34107 >> I am not sure where in that message there is >> discussion of religion, or politics. But, does it >> matter? >> >> More importantly, why did Ryan not follow his OWN >> RULES: >> >> "... >> >> Discussions that the moderators deem inappropriate >> will be handled as >> follows: >> >> 1. A public warning will be posted in the relevant >> thread. >> 2. Members who ignore the warning may be subject to >> a >> brief revocation of posting privileges. >> 3. Continued violations will be handled on a case by >> case basis. >> 4. In the interest of full disclosure, moderator >> actions will be posted to the list. >> >> ..." >> >> >> No "public warning" was posted on this matter. >> >> Since there was no warning, there was none to >> ignore, >> therefore this action is against established policy. >> >> **** The actions taken by Ryan have not been posted >> to >> the list, "In the interest of full disclosure". Why >> should he? He is simply using his power to silence >> me. >> >> So, now that you all know what is going on... >> >> Frankly, I can just go away again. The mailing list >> is just a form of entertainment. It is not critical >> or even necessary. The point of me taking the time >> to >> write this is so there is a record of what went >> on... >> And if at any point in the future someone considers >> moving to any forum run by Ryan, they know who they >> are dealing with. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/HliolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/