I don't know if that original invite was intended to leave the DMA out or not. It is kind of hard NOT to remember them in that particular region, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt here. As for Kevin & Ken's replies, I understand both completely. Tempers are FLARING! Everyone has a short fuse for their own reasons. Could both of them have worded things better? Certainly. But I won't hold anything against either of them because they both have a right to feel the way that they do. It's just the nature of the situation we're in, and hindsight is always 20/20. On the flip side, I am glad to see Ken Baker give a honest, human response in public. I believe I understand why he said what he did, but in doing so he pointed out the biggest flaw: His unwillingness for public discussion. If Ken did previously speak with Kevin and others in private that the DOA is trying to do one thing (in this case work with other clubs), and then they contradict him in public (by stating that the DOA in fact trying to exclude other clubs), I could TOTALLY understand his anger. But still, that's giving the benefit of the doubt that phone conversation actually happened, and we don't really know if it did. In this case here, Ken, you left yourself open. I mean, we could have a conversation together on the phone right now, and it be totally pleasant. And then one of us could go off and tell our acquaintances and friends that the other was the rudest person ever, and whatever else we wanted to make up. And no one would know the difference because we didn't have our conversation in public for others to witness. It's not right. It would make both of us vulnerable. Which is why I will not contact you, nor any other DOA people by phone for a one-on-one. When you come to Vegas, or I come to California and we both have other people around, we'll all sit down and chat then. When we talk together, we need to be equals, nothing less. Believe me, it's to protect us both. And I think that I can speak for a few other people here too with that statement. As for what Ken Baker is going through? I don't know what exactly it is? Crushing pressure of public criticism and impossible hurdles frustraiting him beyond belief? Maybe he's rising up to the challenge and see's those same obstacles as opprotunities rather than dificulties? I have no idea, and I'm not going to speak for the guy. I would hope that if he does have problems, that he reaches out for help. He might just be surprised at what he finds. You did ask a VERY important question, Tom: "What has Ken Baker done to (me or) anyone?" I'll be honest, I feel threatened. Not that I'm vying for any sort of power or control over people. No. But I do want to enjoy MY experience with MY DeLorean as I see fit. I have no need for any sort of national club. I don't want one. I'll stay local. I like the people here in Las Vegas, and I enjoy interacting with them when I get the chance. I also know that my model of vehicle has certain requirements to operate in this harsh environment. And the same is true for other cars that are at opposite ends of the world. My local club is better suited to serve my needs, because they better understand them. A national club does not. Aside from that, getting down to the nitty-gritty here: I don't need someone to tell me how I'm supposed to enjoy my car. I LOVE the patina of my steering wheel & shifter, as much as I love my custom speakers and seat covers. And what I don't need is someone coming in and telling me that I'm a bad owner because I've *modified* my car with aftermarket parts, or that I've *neglected* it because I don't replace those small cosmetic ones that no longer look new. These are standards to which my local club does not hold me, and I like them for that. And I especially think that no other DeLorean owners should have to be subjected to those kind of hostilities either. Let them remain a local club to the greater Los Angeles area, and I'll endorse them and will even work with them organizing future events. I've asked these questions time and time again, and still no answer from the DOA. Their silence speaks volumes. My worries and concerns have not been addressed. Hell, I don't even know what Ken Baker's stance is on painting and modifying DeLoreans! The impression I've gotten so far is that Ken Baker is just some car salesman from Florida who wants to run a club that is going to try and hold me to their standards, but just ignores public questions. I don't know anything about him, so where is my incentive here to trust him or the DOA? -Robert vin 6585 "X" --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "outatime81" <outatime81@...> wrote: > > I have been reading the back and forth about the issue with the DOA > and the DMA in terms of the invitation, or lack there and the ongoing > mis-trust that is evident. > [moderator snip] ------------------------------------ To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/join (Yahoo! 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