EUREKA! The engine is now out! It all comes down to the protector plate behind the starter. once I slid the starter off I saw the plate. the plate was a little snug but with a little wiggel it poped off and the engine slid forward seconds after, good thing I had the engine hoise attached. the plate on the drivers side is missing and the plate underneath that protects the flyweel is also gone, interesting point here is there seems to of been some frustration on the part of a mechanic at some point. the plate was broken off leaving all 4 studs still attached. The engine slid out with no problem, never even broke a sweat, cleared the bell houseing with no problem. No hangups this time. they were sneaky with that plate hehe. unfortunetly the right engine mount was deteriorated and fell apart upon removal. the rubber seperated from the metal part that cradels the engine block. thats the only casulty so far. Thank you everyone for all your great advice! Everyone was right on the money. I love the DML, without it I'd be scratching my head and frustrated. Thank you Everybody!!!!!! Todd Vin5386 __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute