Well, the group is finally hitting on what _I_ do for a living, so I thought I'd contribute. Copyrights, by definition, do not cover "useful articles", only artful expressions. The only protection anyone could have obtained for the torsion bars (they are useful articles) would be a patent, which has since expired. No permission is necessary to recreate them. If they were patented, however, then the patent on file with the PTO teaches the invention. I haven't looked to see if it's there. If I get a moment, I will. If anyone is thinking or recreating them in some other way, that other way may be covered by a different patent, presumably belonging to someone else, so some care should be used with creativity... Brent Beecher #893 PNDC Proud owner of a set of Toby bolts If I recall correctly, John DeLorean personally holds the copyright on the torsion bars. If so, anyone who wanted to make up a new supply would need his permission. In any case, I'd like to know what the vendors intend to do about this. (James...?) -Wayne A. Ernst DMCTech Group _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com