On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Brent Beecher wrote: > If they were patented, however, then the patent on file with the PTO > teaches the invention. Reading up, the patent on the torsion bar and on the door designs are (respectively): Patent #4,092,180 (Manufacture of Torsion Bars) [1978/05/30] Patent #4,378,658 (Mounting for a vehicle door) [1983/04/05] Cheers. Noah VIN #2867 "Just as others may choose clay or stone or paint, I and my compatriots have chosen stupidity as our medium. But stupid must be worked and mastered like any other material; during this experimental stage, the viewer of the work may feel he or she is observing 'perceptiveness' or 'art.' This is simply an illusion." - Ben Edlund, creator of "The Tick"