dmcnews-digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 353
In this issue:
Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
DML: Fibreglass subframes moulds
DML: Original DMC plans
DML: Manuals and Back Issues
DML: Fuel Odor
Re: DML: DeLorean Classfieds
Re: DML: Manuals and Back Issues
DML: Windows
Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
DML: radiator question
re:DML: Is your Delorean for ?
DML: Door opening too fast...
Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Re: DML: Original DMC plans
Re: DML: Bleeding
DML: more parts for sale
Re: DML: K & N Filters
Re: DML: DeLorean Classfieds
DML: Re: Windows
DML: Buying New Delorean
Re: DML: Manuals and Back Issues
re:DML: Is your Delorean for ? (long)
DML: RE: Re: Windows
Re: DML: Bleeding
re:DML: Is your Delorean for ?
DML: Grey Leather Dye
DML: DMC in National Geographic
DML: R/H Drive Delorean Wanted.
DML: 1997 not 8 DELOREAN
DML: Re: Is your Delorean for ?
RE: DML: OEM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:22:55 -0700
From: "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Phillips, x4300 <PhillipsJT00.CS33.USAFA@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 10:59 AM
Subject: re:DML: Is your Delorean for ?
>the reasons more people don't object to modifying the DeLorean is
>because its feeling of being a grand experiment in automotive >history.
hehe .. You know, now that you mention it, I do get that feeling..
>The problem, when it comes to resale, is that what you feel is
>an esthetic improvement, like a spoiler or painting the car, I may
>think seriously detracts from the appearance. While most of us can
>agree on whata mechanical improvement is, most of us will not on
>aesthetic improvements.
I do agree with this (kinda).. Obviously paint is a irreversable action,
and would detract from the value if someone was in the market for a SS304
D.
However... If I had headliners that were falling apart, is replacing the
headliners with a color that more closely matches the interior an
athstetic
"change"? After all, it is totally reversable, and doesn't detract in any
way.. Heck, unless someone had seen another Delorean, they'd probably just
think that's the way it's supposed to be. I mean, as long as you aren't
cutting, drilling, glueing, or welding, something onto your car, it's all
temporary anyway, right?
What about getting a different steering wheel, or a custom console armrest
(wood, fiberglass, etc..).? If you keep the old ones are you still
hurting
the value of the car? If your interior is shabby, would it detract or
improve the value to dye it something darker, conceiling the wear, but
looking tons better?
>My personal peeves are gold trim,
>axle-extensions (skateboarding), and lowered pickups.
>
I couldn't agree more about these "mods"!! Very tacky.
Take it easy!
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:28:00 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Dave Price wrote:
>
> There has been a lot of concern recently and in the past about keeping
> everything "OEM" (headliner fabric, radio, carpet, fascia/wheel paint, CB
> antennas, etc.), and I was wondering "why?".
>
> There are some great things about these cars, but I wouldn't consider any
> of
> these things to be one of them.
> Dave
I have kept my DeLorean 100% stock. I have been tempted to add on
devices for convience, but have with held. I enjoy driving the car and
like all of the attention that I get when I take it out. I have been
taking it to car shows, and most people are impressed with the original
car, in fact I think that since it is all original, I may do better in
the judging for trophies. I do not have any problems with modifications
such as fanzilla, because it does not alter the aperance of the car.
I have been thinking about addiong the third brake light, but only if I
were able to install it without making any permanent changes, such as
drilling holes.
If I were ever to sell my car, a "collector" would pay more for an
original than a car that has been modified or physicaly altered.
That is my opinion, you may do to your car as you see fit.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:07:42 EDT
From: NeilDyer <NeilDyer@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Fibreglass subframes moulds
If anyone out there is interested I have a set of what I beleave are
original
GRP
moulds for the Delorean. These i'm told came from the Lotus factory and
were
used to make the very first cars. They are exeptionally well made, and are
designed for the injection moulding process, but they could also be used
for
hand lay.
They have been standing outside for a few years, but should clean up ok
as the
gel they used was of tooling quality.
I'm looking for offers over $2000 they would ship to the usa quite
easilly in
a 40' container. if you are interested please FAX me on 44 1953 457888
(01953
457888
in the UK)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:20:34 EDT
From: NeilDyer <NeilDyer@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Original DMC plans
If anyone reading this is interested, I have for sale a car load of A3-A0
techinal component drawings for the Delorean car ranging from blue print
paper
copies to copies on film and ones which appear original and are drawn in
ink.
there are some which are A3 in size and are in a folder marked up as
"secondary masters"
I'm looking to sell the all of them as one lot. I've been told by
different
people that they are worth anything from $500 and $10,000 if they were
sold at
a specialist auction.
I'm open to offers !
If you are interested please Fax me on 44 1953 457888 (01953 457888 in UK)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:19:34 -0600
From: Greg Guillot <gguillot@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Manuals and Back Issues
Hi Everyone,
When I purchased my D a month ago, I obtained all of the sales
materials, and manuals from the original owner. The owner was a
member of an organization called the DMCA. Was the DMCA the
predecessor to the DOA? Included in the materials is a DMCA technical
manual and about 8 issues of "De Gullwing" and the first issue of
DeLorean World. The manual does a good job of explaining how various
systems work (fuel injection, brakes, etc.) but does not go into
detail on repairing these systems, with the exception of the
transmission. Actually, the only part of the manual that uses the
section numbering scheme is the transmission section. Other areas
look hand typed.
My question is - is this the only repair manual available? If I order
a new manual, am I going to get something with great detail on all areas
of the car? I am performing a complete restoration of the car myself,
and although I am mechanically inclined, I want all the help I can
get.
Also, regarding the Delorean World back issues, is it really worth
the $300 bucks? That money could buy me a complete set of struts or a
complete fuel pump kit, or a complete set of headliners. I am
hesitant to lay out that kind of money if I am going to get a bunch
of magazines with articles on what transpired at Board meetings,
road rallies, or cruises. The few issues of the "De Gullwing"
newsletter contain many helpful hints and fixes - maybe I have a
majority of the information I need already between the materials I
have and the excellent DMC-News archives. What do you guys who have
these materials think?
Thanks,
Greg Guillot
VIN #2926
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:15:46 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: DML: Fuel Odor
I finally found the source of fuel odor after filling my DeLorean
today. I pulled the access cover above the fuel pump and the rubber
boot was full of gas. Apparently, when I replaced the fuel pump/ect. I
did not put a hose clamp around the steel fuel return pipe that passes
through the rubber boot. (#105020). By pressing on top of the tank, I
could see where the gas was coming up through the boot. I installed the
clamp, end of problem. I feel like an idiot for not putting the clamp
on in the first place, but thought I would share the lesson learned from
the school of humility.
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:49:18 EDT
From: DMC3309 <DMC3309@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: DeLorean Classfieds
If you are truely interested in buying a Delorean take your time. Before
I
bought mine I had my share of people describing their Delorean as like
new or
mint condition. But believe me what I consider excellent and what other
people consider excellent it two different things. I looked at an
"excellent
condition" one in western Ohio and I when I saw it sitting in the front
yard
I should have kept on going but the owner had already flagged me down.
Keep
in mind the prices of some of the replacement parts so when the owner
says all
it needs is this or that remind him of what this or that will cost you
once
you buy it. I looked at half a dozen or so before I bought mine so I knew
what was out there and the prices people were asking.
Robert Gorski
VIN 3309
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:52:56 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: Re: DML: Manuals and Back Issues
Greg Guillot wrote:
The few issues of the "De Gullwing"
> newsletter contain many helpful hints and fixes - maybe I have a
> majority of the information I need already between the materials I
> have and the excellent DMC-News archives. What do you guys who have
> these materials think?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg Guillot
> VIN #2926
Greg, I recently purchased the back issues of DeLorean World. I found
that there were many good articles and tech tips. Myself, I felt that
they were worth it. I guess it depends on your budget. The archives
are useful, just be sure you read all of the postings related to the
problem. Sometimes there is conflicting information, it is up to you to
decide which solution is the correct one for your problem.
Scott Mueller
#2981
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:19:56 -0400
From: Dennis Lowery <ratfink@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Windows
After looking over the "1998 Delorean", and seeing how the builder went
to great lenghts to make a window that opens more than the small
standard window I thought i'd repost an idea i posted long ago. Can the
entire non-moving Delorean window be removed, and replaced with a
removable glass panel that could be store in the trunk area(like T-Top
panels). I'm no engineer but would be interested to find out if this is
a possible answer to the typical claustrophobic feeling that many people
get while driving their Delorean. Any input or suggestions would be
welcomed.
Dennis Lowery
Vin. 4797
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:47 -0800
From: "Ken Montgomery" <kenm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Dave Price wrote:
>
> There has been a lot of concern recently and in the past about
> keeping everything "OEM" (headliner fabric, radio, carpet,
> fascia/wheel paint, CB antennas, etc.), and I was wondering "why?".
>
> There are some great things about these cars, but I wouldn't
> consider any of these things to be one of them.
I can see both sides of this. My car is currently 100% stock and was
the winner in several car shows (many years ago). However, I can't see
how making non-visible upgrade changes to be anything but positive. My
car has had most of the Lucas parts changed out for Bosch, and
upgraded hoses etc, can only help with resale value.. that is if the
buyer knows anything about DeLoreans. That was a big consideration
when I bought my car last January. I was looking at 2 cars: 1 had 29K
miles and all the upgrades, and the other had 10K miles and no
upgrades. I went with the one with the upgrades because I knew it
would cost me a ton less to keep it on the road (plus the 10K car peed
on me because a hose broke somewhere while I was looking it over).
But headliners, carpet, paints, those should be 100 stock in
APPEARANCE. We may have some great cars, but there's been a lot of
advances in the last few years in materials. A few changes from stock
such as the radio and lowering the car enough to even out the wheel
well gaps are positive changes in my opinion.
Beyond that, how 'stock' you keep the car depends on your taste,
pocketbook and sensibilities.
- -------------------------------------------------------
Ken Montgomery My DeLorean VIN #10911
Sacramento, CA
kenm@xxxxxxxx "When the wind gets under these wings
Operating You will feel what freedom brings"
Systems Analyst From 'On-Air' Alan Parsons
(916) 278-7646
http://www.jps.net/arkham/delorean01.htm
- -------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:16:33 EDT
From: Kayo Ong <KayoOng@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
Dave,
The reason why everyone wants a "mint" or keep it O.E.M. is for several
reasons, one of them being for resale, and more important insurance
reasons.
Would you like a chopped or butchered car? Would you like a car someone
that
has a modification if it was not O.E.M. and questionable for operational
and
saftey factors? People like modifications by others only if the changes
suits
them the same.
Many modifications are okay as long as it does not impede the operation
it was
designed for and that it will enhance or perform equal or better for it
purpose of its functions. It also must be accepted by the masses of the
owners in the marque and as well as the members to these clubs of the
marque.
Kayo Ong
#05508
Lic. 9D
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 19:03:40 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: radiator question
Just recently purchased a car. As of now, I only
intend on using it for spare parts and some needed
parts for my current restoration. I disassembled
it last weekend and noticed that the radiator is
different than my current car and previous
cars. There seems to be a thermo switch
screwed into it near the bottom driver side.
Question is: Could this be the replacement/improved
brass radiator or something else. ?
- -Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: illyana delorean <illyanadmc@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: re:DML: Is your Delorean for ?
> the "1998" DeLorean.
1998 delorean? once again, i have no idea what's going on!
<-illyana->
p.s. i realize you mean that someone just altered their delorean in
some way, but i just want to know what they did!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:03:09 -0700
From: "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Door opening too fast...
Hia all..
My passenger door opens much too fast, and it makes my heart stop every
time
a passenger pulls the handle and lets the door fly up and bounce to a stop
(it is also a pain to close). I feel really anal harping on everyone who
rides with me to gently let the door up. I searched the back issues and
there was lots of talk about droopy doors, but not a whole lot about doors
on steroids... Since the torsion bar only lifts the door at the beginning
of the door opening, is this problem related to my struts? Can I get them
de-pressurized a bit, or will I have to adjust the torision bar? Lord
knows
I want to avoid that if possible... However, since it's probably bad for
the torsion bar to be wound too tight, so would I be better off to unwind
it
a bit?
Thanks guys!
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:26:19 -0500
From: "Jameel Ahed" <ahed@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Is your Delorean for keeps?
I have many modifications on my car. I have added a very nice alarm
system
with remote start, garage door opener, auto start, remote luggage
compartment release, (soon to be automatic doors), new type of central
door
locking mechanism, small hidden courtesy lights for the floor of the car,
a
new din type top of the line stereo with 12 disk changer, I improved as
much as possible with the mechanical aspects of the engine. I dropped the
front end and as soon as the new rear springs arrive I will put those on
also. I could not care less what anybody thinks about it. It is my car,
I
paid for it, and therefore I feel I can do what I wish with it. I believe
these enhancements have brought my enjoyment for this car to a new level.
I also have tons of respect and admiration for completely stock, OEM,
MINT!!! cars. I feel it takes a lot of time, patience, and $$$$$ oh and
not
to mention the dedication in keeping these cars 100% pure.
My two pennies.
Jameel Ahed
Jameel Ahed CEO of CyberTECH Industries
Consultant for VOITECH Computer Solutions
HOMEPAGE: http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~ahed/
VOITECH: http://www.voitech.com
EMAIL: mailto:ahed@xxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:56:37 -0400
From: Yugoman@xxxxxxxxx (Ralph Isenberg)
Subject: Re: DML: Original DMC plans
Sounds like a great preservation project for DOA.
Ralph Isenberg (Yugoman@xxxxxxxxx)
1977 Pacer
1975 Vega (for sale-trophy winner!)
1990 Yugo Convertible (rare- also for sale)
2 Corvairs ready to restore, Comet, VW, 1988 Yugo GVX, too many
carburetors to feed, somebody adopt one!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:57:21 -0400
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Bleeding
can the clutch line be replaced with the SS braid without removing the
trans?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:41:59 -0400
From: Vicki Miller <"1000mil@xxxxxxx"@gte.net>
Subject: DML: more parts for sale
I have a engine for sale- it needs a fuel distributor-fuel lines to
injectors and injectors, it has about 50k on it came out of a running
car. complete exhaust system comes with engine also starter, motor
mounts, distr. cap, wires and plugs.....
call for prices- delivery can be arranged
bob miller
919-383-6187
North carolina
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:18:07 -0400
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: K & N Filters
When I was a PJ Grady a few weeks ago, Rob told me that a salesman gave
him a sample of a filter that would fit the Delorean. From that, I can
assume that one does exsist.
Kayo Ong wrote:
> Mr. Espey and everyone are right. NO SUCH THING (yet). Anyone want to take
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:50:25 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: DeLorean Classfieds
> If you are truely interested in buying a Delorean take your time. Before
> I
> bought mine I had my share of people describing their Delorean as like
> new or
> mint condition. But believe me what I consider excellent and what other
> people consider excellent it two different things. I looked at an
> "excellent
Something else to consider when looking for a car. Not all owners
actually know what they are selling. For example : I looked at
one of those " excellent condition, mint, low miles, etc..." cars
and found that the interior had been redone in the wrong texture
and color. The dash was padded and looked bad. The engine
was of American origin and the service counter indicated 80K miles
but the odometer said 2K. The owner honestly didn't realize his
"MINT" delorean wasn't historically correct. I actually took him
to see my "mint" delorean I had at the time and the man almost
cried because he realized he had been ripped off when he purchased
the thing.
- -BM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:04:42 -0700
From: "Ryan Bennett" <rpbennet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Windows
Dennis Lowry wrote:
>After looking over the "1998 Delorean", and seeing how the builder went
>to great lenghts to make a window that opens more than the small
>standard window I thought i'd repost an idea i posted long ago. Can the
>entire non-moving Delorean window be removed, and replaced with a
>removable glass panel that could be store in the trunk area(like T-Top
>panels). I'm no engineer but would be interested to find out if this is
>a possible answer to the typical claustrophobic feeling that many people
>get while driving their Delorean. Any input or suggestions would be
>welcomed.
>
>Dennis Lowery
>Vin. 4797
I was always of the impression that the Delorean windows add considerable
structural integrity to the gull wings. It would seem that removing it
would
create undue stress on the support between the torsion bar and the lower
part which constitutes much of the weight. I figure that this could cause
serious alignment problems in short time due to the door tweaking. There
had
to be a reason for the "tollbooths" to be implemented originally. I
haven't
seen a Briklin or Mercedes 300SL, but I wonder how they did it.
I can imagine that the structure could be improved upon, but I wouldn't
really know where to start despite being a packaging engineer. I believe
that the "1998 Delorean" has fixed glass on either side running
vertically,
and a sliding panel in the center, kind of like your typical house window.
It looked kind of campy to me, and seems to be more of a "vertical
tollbooth" than a fully open window.
Personally, I don't find the car claustrophobic, and think the stock
windows
look kinda cool. If I ever start to have a panic attack while driving,
I'll
pull over and open the door.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:19:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Massimo Troiani <maxt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Buying New Delorean
Hi all,
I am thinking of buying a Delorean that I have seen at a car dealer. The
car
is in OK condition. The interior needs some work and I don't know if the
motor will need any work done to it.
If I was to restore the interior of the car and do some work to the motor
(like put in a new radiator, replace parts that were defective in original
model, like the trailing arm bolts, etc) how much would I be looking at
spending?
I ask because the guy wants about $18,000 and I don't believe it's worth
that much.
Any help would be appreciated.
Massimo
P.S. this woiuld be my first Delorean.
The brave may enter, but only the wise will leave
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:13:51 -0700
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Manuals and Back Issues
At 03:19 PM 4/15/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>When I purchased my D a month ago, I obtained all of the sales
>materials, and manuals from the original owner. The owner was a
>member of an organization called the DMCA. Was the DMCA the
>predecessor to the DOA? Included in the materials is a DMCA technical
>manual and about 8 issues of "De Gullwing" and the first issue of
>DeLorean World. The manual does a good job of explaining how various
>systems work (fuel injection, brakes, etc.) but does not go into
>detail on repairing these systems, with the exception of the
>transmission. Actually, the only part of the manual that uses the
>section numbering scheme is the transmission section. Other areas
>look hand typed.
>My question is - is this the only repair manual available? If I order
>a new manual, am I going to get something with great detail on all areas
>of the car? I am performing a complete restoration of the car myself,
>and although I am mechanically inclined, I want all the help I can
>get.
>Also, regarding the Delorean World back issues, is it really worth
>the $300 bucks? That money could buy me a complete set of struts or a
>complete fuel pump kit, or a complete set of headliners. I am
>hesitant to lay out that kind of money if I am going to get a bunch
>of magazines with articles on what transpired at Board meetings,
>road rallies, or cruises. The few issues of the "De Gullwing"
>newsletter contain many helpful hints and fixes - maybe I have a
>majority of the information I need already between the materials I
>have and the excellent DMC-News archives. What do you guys who have
>these materials think?
>
>Thanks,
>Greg Guillot
>VIN #2926
>
Hi Greg,
I add my comment to others, yes the $300 is well worth the money. The
manual set from PJ Grady are a must unless you plan to have all the
regular
and repair malignance done at an official DMC shop.
I can think of no comments that will impact you with the importance of
these comments, just to say it's not the money that counts, it's some how
explaining the impact of the frustration of having no mediate resource
when
a question pops up.
The best I can do is point out my own very stupid experience as an
example.
I have been hearing a very real but un fineable "squeal" in the rear of
my
D that came and went, but was always there, it almost sounded like
breaking
rubber on acceleration from a standing stop. I read time and time again
here in the DML that all new D owners must check the trailing arm bolts,
for bent or looseness. I never bothered checking until this spring when I
decided to do some needed service. upon removing the mud guards I
discovered that both retainer plate bolts that hold the trailing arm bolts
to the D frame were missing! I could literally died in and uncontrolled
highway accident because of this situation. The bad part of this is the
problem I discovered, "the reason to check and how to check were all
covered in an article in the Delorean World", which I have and never
bothered to read! Only the fact that the retaining washer had caught in
the frame cut out save me while driving 2K miles. Stupid luck saved me
from
an accident that would have happened eventually. Yes it's true this may be
extreme, but it's true and a good lesson in point. There are 16 years of
practical experience locked up in the pages of Delorean World which you
will find no where else. The price is cheep compared to the price of a
coffin.
Lee Seiler
81DMC-12
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:49:51 -0700
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: re:DML: Is your Delorean for ? (long)
At 11:17 AM 4/15/98 MDT, you wrote:
>Dave wrote:
.......................My personal peeves are gold trim,
>axle-extensions (skateboarding), and lowered pickups.
>
>Jeff Phillips
>
CAUTION Long reply follows!
reply:
Hi Jeff,
I read several post in this thread and would like to make a general
comment about the D and being OEM.
My first reaction is that to begin with there is no specific
configuration
that would meet "OEM" because from unit one on there were many "factory
modifications right on the line" so what configuration is OEM?
Next as pointed out ad-on-in-ph-item (sic), A good deal of the electrical
system, including motors, switches and relays were both under-rated for
the
job and did not work well, and are in most cases not available as
replacements today, makes a real 100% OEM impractical or impossible for a
useable running machine. What about plugs and points, and all the other
rubber parts, right down to the screws and nuts.
But more importantly, what is todays standard for a stock model car? to
me
that standard is determined by others, not D owners. Like it or not the
standard used in car shows and similar organizations have very specific
rules on this subject and that is what one must follow.
From a personal point of view, I like many on this list enjoy working on
my own D for a lot of the day to day and restoration service. Right now I
am doing some major work on my D that was sold to me as "mint condition".
No way is my pride an joy a Mint condition D as I once thought. Putting it
on Jack stands and pulling the wheels, and mud guards, laying under it and
spraying penetrating oil on all the rusty bolts, finding swing arm bracket
bolts missing, and rear trans axial seals leaking is any thing but mint.
Surface corrosion on all the aluminium casings could be considered stock I
guess.
When I decided to buy my D I purchased it with no home work and knowing
nothing about it at all. I just wanted it and purchased it from a
semi-reputable sports car dealer. The car was stock right down to the
faulty relays and original tires. So am I going to ruin it by taking it
out
of OEM?, well My D has a very rear hood found on very few D's to start
with
and can not possibly be kept stock and be driven. Yes I could clean it up
until it was spotless, but with out replacing all the rusty parts, many of
which are simply not available, I could only clean off the rust, but then
it would never see the open road! Well so much for staying stock.
All the rest of the comments posted in this thread cover the issue quite
well so I depart at this point from the thread to take one more step...the
real world.
I agree that unless you weld stainless fins on it or put the rear wheels
on the front and the front on the rear, which I did once, for all
practical
uses the cars looks stock. I also agree that most non-DeLorean fans have
no
idea what a D actually looks like so when they start peeking at one what
ever they see is what they will accept as "STOCK". Many of the people that
have stopped me expected to see futuristic interments and space stuff
inside my D! They all miss-value it at $40 to $60 K, and once I said it
was
worth $110K and the waffo did not blink at the cost!
I have a feeling that the real World value of my D will be what out ward
condition the body has, next the looks of the engine, Clean verses dirty,
and finally the condition of the carpets, seats etc. And finally how well
it runs. I can tell you that right now I have no intention of ever selling
it, and probably drive it long after the state refuses to give me a
drivers
license.??????
I would also like to share with our group something which I discovered
just today! Why I actually bought my D and why I suspect many of you have.
To day wile waiting for a shipment from PJ Grady, I spent the day washing
the tires and installing the driver side door seals. While I worked I
discovered many new details of how the D is put together, for the first
time I saw the sheet metal screws that hold the stainless panels to the
fiberglass underbody. I also found 3 of them loose but clued in place by
the seal adhesive. They were never tightened at the factory. I found my
self thinking about how much I liked stripping the old glue and cleaning
the area down to bear stainless. It then struck me that the real value of
the D sitting on Jacks in it's new garage, was It was a real sports car,
not just expensive plastic bar of soap design from japan. I could see that
it was assembled by hand not auto welded, and mass stamped. It was clear
that the pop-rivets were done by a person. This was a car built to be
driven and built to be worked on. It was a car I could understand, work
on
fix any part on, it was really a sports car in every sense of the word. It
lacks the "over finished" look and feel of the Plastic abortions selling
for $40-60 Large, that will refuse to start and run because some stupid
computer part blows up, and requires another stupid computer to check. I
can see the finger marks of the assembler in the gasket glue in the mating
surfaces. As I worked on the cleaning, and then brushing on the contact
glue, and finally pressing the new door seals in place, I realized that
this work made the D really mine, I can see as I work on it more and more
it will become more mine. Knowing where the clutch line bleed screw is,
having cleaned and replaced door seals, installing Tankzilla, fighting the
angle drive....now when something happens I will no longer wonder what it
will cost at the auto repair shop. Unlike a bright Yellow Lamb that sits
gathering dust, I will be able to both find the problem and fix it my
self,
no more wondering if the screws were tightened, or wondering if the
mechanic bothered to clean up after installing a $1,000 dollar part! The
D
LENDS IT'S SELF TO BECOMING A PERSONAL EXTENSION ON THE ROAD.
Just a side comment, not to long ago I beat the pants of a 911 on my way
up to a local lake on two lane black-top (over 25 miles) up and over a 2K
coastal mountain. At the Calastoga stop just at the foot of the hill
climbing route the guy and his Cute passenger pulled up next to us at the
drive in about 15 minutes later. The driver was quite impressed and
admitted he had never seen a D before and wanted to know all about it. I
of
course was suitably humble, and could see that his ride was more then
ready
to trade with my wife for a place to sit!....wink<
It's clear to me now that the genius of JZD was not just the stainless
gull wing design, it was he knew then that he had to sell to the tradition
that had grown here in the US of love of the road and the freedom men feel
on it. As it was once true when men explored the west on horseback it is
true today that the same spirit of exploration, freedom and adventure can
live in the body of the DeLorean, which I believe it does, and that's my
OEM view!
Lee Seiler
81DMC-12
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:41:56 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: Re: Windows
For the record I also like the stock windows. And they're not that rare,
relatively ! the countach has the same type so does the subaru svx. I
also recall seeing them on another car but I can't remember what it was.
The removable t-roof type idea is interesting. However I think that the
stock windows are part of the D's charm !
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:45:09 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: Re: DML: Bleeding
Marc A Levy wrote:
>
> can the clutch line be replaced with the SS braid without removing the
> trans?
Yes, but it isn't easy. There is not a lot of room. I changed mine in
1985, so it is not really that fresh in my mind.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:31:51 +0000
From: ausmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: re:DML: Is your Delorean for ?
reply,
Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Precedence: list
Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I read several post in this thread and would like to make a general
> comment about the D and being OEM.
(big snip)
> Lee Seiler
> 81DMC-12
A real pleasure reading your comments. I thoroughly agree with the
thoughts and sentiment. Very happy someone is articulate, and patient
enough to type my feelings. Would have taken me an hour!
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:42:53 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: DML: Grey Leather Dye
My 1981 has the Grey Leather interior.
I have a scuff mark on the seat and you can see the raw leather.
I tried KIWI "NU-LIFE Color Spray Dye #614 Grey", it is to light.
Has anyone found a grey leather dye that matches the original interior.
Since this has been a one family car since purchased in October 1981, I
know that the interior has not been changed.
Any help would be appreciated.
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:21:05 +0100
From: David Swingle <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: DMC in National Geographic
My son has been researching Northern Ireland for a paper in school (I
wonder how he picked THAT topic), and ran across an article on Northern
Ireland published in National Geographic Magazine in April 1981. In the
article is a brief mention of Delorean's factory and pending creation of
2000 jobs. There is a shot of a group of people working on a prototype,
understandable given the fact that the article was probably put together
about 2 -3 months before the factory went into production. A curiosity is
that the side window appears to have no opening at all, i.e. neither the
tollbooth nor sliding arrangement.
Dave Swingle
81 VIN 5429
DOA, DMC, DMC(Midwest)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:52:39 +1200
From: "Richard Mazur" <richard.mazur@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: R/H Drive Delorean Wanted.
Hi list members,
I am looking for a right hand drive Delorean to ship to New Zealand, if
anyone has one or can shed some light on where I am likely to locate such
a
beast, please drop me an email. I would also like (a dog) an unloved car
for spares, L/H or R/H drive o.k. but must be very cheap.
Richard Mazur
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 7:55:13 -0500
From: Don Gowler-CFPO01 <Don_Gowler-CFPO01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: 1997 not 8 DELOREAN
CHECK OUT THE DELOREAN MIDWEST CONNECTION WEB SITE FOR MORE INFORMATION
ON WHAT I BELIEVE BOB BRANDYS REFERS TO AS HIS 1997 NOT 1998 DELOREAN
http://www.delorean-midwest.org
REGARDS, THE SILVER FOX
>> the "1998" DeLorean.
>
>1998 delorean? once again, i have no idea what's going on!
>
><-illyana->
>
>p.s. i realize you mean that someone just altered their delorean in
>some way, but i just want to know what they did!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:08:54 -0400
From: Mike Griese <magriese@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Is your Delorean for ?
This is perhaps the greatest debate in the collectible
automobile world other than the "classic" designation.
I follow auction results and general market trends for
alot of different cars. What I have seen is that cars that
are in original condition hold the most value over the
long term. These are not cars that typically get driven
anywhere other than on and off the trailer. Cars that
are heavily modified (hot rods, customs, etc) do the
worst in value retention unless the car has some
historical significance. These cars are very personal
expressions and it is difficult to find anyone else who
happens to have the same taste AND be willing to
shell out lots of money. There is a large grey
area. Modifications that are easily undone (non-
intrusive stereo upgrades, bolt-on power mods,
etc) don't greatly effect the overall value of
a car. Things like aftermarket seats, non-original
paint colors, interior colors, drivetrains, wheels
etc. do.
The general rule that I use on my cars is to
decide what I ultimately want out of a car when
I'm done with it. I keep my DeLorean as close
to stock as practical (I have most of the updates
installed to keep it driveable), my Mustang
is all original equipment but does not match
the build sheet, and the Esprit is nothing
but fun - it will get changed however and
whenever makes the most sense to keep it
on the road and fun.
Bottom line - do whatever you want with your
car, but don't be surprised if it winds up
worthless at the end of the day. After all,
it's just a car.
Michael A. Griese
IBM Storage Systems Division
Rochester, MN 55901
Internet: magriese@xxxxxxxxxx
voice: (507)253-1853
fax: (507)253-2880
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:21:05 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: RE: DML: OEM
well everybody's posted an opinion, so here's mine !
I think the OEM point has been missed.
lee wrote :
> My first reaction is that to begin with there is no specific
> configuration that would meet "OEM" because from unit one on there
> were many "factory
> modifications right on the line" so what configuration is OEM?
>
The fact that production changed is irrelevant, a particular car is
stock if it's exactly like it was when it rolled out of the factory. The
values in this configuration is for a collector or a museum. There is no
value in this for someone(like me) who wants to drive the thing. But for
someone who truly collects cars, I can see why they'd want it as close
to 0 miles as possible.
Now, for drivers in the market, just beware of bad modification. That's
were the advantage of OEM would come in, no mods means no bad mods !
make sure the car comes with a paper trail !
there's my one and a half cents.
Geoffroy.
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #353
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