dmcnews-digest Monday, December 29 1997 Volume 03 : Number 315
In this issue:
Re: DML: Delorean
Re: DML: More cold weather problems
Re: DML: Re: Some days I Hate My DMC
DML: Re: dmcnews-digest V3 #314
Re: DML: Delorean
Re: DML: More cold weather problems
Re: DML: Delorean
Re: DML: Delorean
DML: Hey, I think my Delorean is Great! $100 a month???-Nahhh.
DML: RE: some days I hate my DMC
DML: ADMIN NOTE: Subscriber Count - All-Time High
Re: DML: Delorean
DML: Oil filler cvc
Re: DML: More cold weather problems
DML: website update
DML: my dmc experience
DML: Re: Mr Sheen.
DML: DMC for sale; DMC books for sale
DML: RE: ADMIN NOTE: Subscriber Count - All-Time High
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 07:35:56 -0800
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Delorean
At 03:29 PM 12/22/97 EST, you wrote:
>Hello
>
>I am considering buying a Delorean to drive regular, and wondering
>if they break down a lot and cost a lot to keep in good running condition.
>So if you could tell me the mounthly amount yall spend to keep the
>Delorean
>running and any other tips to look at for before i buy it
>Thanks
>Keith Hernandez
>
Hello keith,
Glad to see another person interested in driving a DMC every day.
I have had mine for just under a year. I drive every day that I drive any
thing. I don't commute in the ordinary way (lots of traffic) But I do rely
on it to start and run on a daily basis.
As to cost: Apart from the insurance, which was just a little less than
my
wife's 73 Tyota, gas is about one tank a week or around 320 miles. That s
about it. My DMC burns no measurable oil, (Changed every 1000 miles). If I
divide the cost of mechanical work over the year 3K/365= $8.21 a day. This
is a very high cost because it included work that was a matter of choice
that you would not have. I also do not include the cost of the DMC to
begin
with.
You should find that your cost will be about the same as any other sports
coupe you might choose. the chances of getting a repair headache is about
the same as choosing any other car.
Your best bet on avoiding this would be to get some one who knows DMC's
and get their opinion on the individual DMC you want to get. Check it out
top to bottom. Try finding one the owner drives and takes great pride in
owning. Your chances are good the DMC will be in top shape.
Good Luck
Lee
VIN#5729
Lic: 81DMC-12
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 12:15:14 PST
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: More cold weather problems
> I just had my doors realigned here in Mpls.... and they are now truely
> screwed up to the point of ripping my door gaskets..... grrrrrr.
>
> Does anyone know the correct procedure for aligning the doors????
>
> Thanks
Honestly, I don't believe that there is a "Procedure" for this. I
spoke with
Mr. Grady once about this and he said sometimes it takes about 30 minutes
to
do it and sometimes all day or more. And he has been doing this for a
long time.
I just spend the previous week putting on the passenger door and aligning
it.
It only took a few minutes to put it on but the rest of the time to align
it properly.
The main thing to remember is when moving the hinges, whether up, down,
left,
right or moving the door in and out, A LITTLE GOES A LONG WAY !!! And
its
somewhat confusing at first, you must keep in mind that when moving the
hinges or door, that you are keeping in mind the effects on the door when
its
CLOSED and not OPEN. EXAMPLE: When the door is open, raising the
door UP on
the side bolts will have the effect of moving the door out when its
closed. :-)
Its fun, !
- -Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:33:47 -0800
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Re: Some days I Hate My DMC
At 05:27 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>My original reply was in the attempt to find out if the individual who
>purchased the D was fully aware of the costs of these automobiles. It is
>true that what you pay and what others pay are of no importance with
>respect
>to ones love of the car. My reason for writing the original letter was
>that
>I have heard lots of people talking about how they got a real great deal
>on
>the car only to have too many repairs needed, and are forced to resell it.
>Those people can hurt the image of these fine automobiles by bad mouthing
>them. In general there is always work needed to keep a Delorean up, and
>where it is true some people will put more or less time and money into a
>car, the bottom line is that any good Delorean has a ballpark price
>sticker
>and if that is not met, there is work to be done.
reply:
Hi John,
I made that assumption in the first place. I have a feeling that your
comments make the assumption that "most" buyers fall into the situation
you
outlined. I don't think that this is the case in general. There is no such
thing as a perfect machine, and even the best kept DMC will require work.
Most of what you see on this list are very satisfied owners who share
their
DMC "lives" with one another. While it may seem in the on-line messages
that the various problems and solutions are an albatross of mechanical
hell, that's just not the case. What you are seeing is the bleak realities
of on line exchange that lack all the humanity that we all add in verbal
and face to face conversation. Just go to any club of any kind and just
listen to the words, I wager you will hear the same.
The type and cost of a car are not the determinant factors in car
ownership. I happen to be able to afford any car I might want, and have
owned some exotic iron over the years-(77 Lotus V8 (Red/black), 94
Lamborghini Diablo VT Roadster (Black/black), 1984 Aston Martin Lagonda
(Silver/Gray), 1930 Bugatti T57 SC Aerolite (Black/Tan), 1957 BMW Isetta
300 coupe (Red/white/Red) just to mention a few. I am also a pilot
(stemming from the military) and occasionally still fly a Grandvill GeeBee
racer (NR278V).
They all cost something to own and require up-keep and time. I don't
think
I have read anything in this list that I haven't heard before. You must
bear in mind that griping about ones love is a part of ownership. "my
troubles cost more than yours" is so common.
For my own part I happen to believe that the value of a thing is measured
by what you put into (not in money) but in personal commitment.
I don't think I have ever enjoyed any thing so mush as seeing a project or
effort bring pleasure with those I can share a common interest with. That
s
what this list is all about!
Oops! "Lee get off that soap Box right NOW!
sorry!
Lee
VIN#5729
Lic:81DMC-12
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:54:14 -0600
From: "Mark D Hiatt" <ottopilot_msn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: dmcnews-digest V3 #314
There's a BAG of wisdom in Dave's words, here. We airplaners see this kind
of thing all of the time. Folks buy a snappy little two-seater for about
$13,500-$15,000 and think that they'll make the payments and put gas and
oil
into it, for some reason. Most of these airplanes are also fifteen to
twenty
years old, and a lot of people somehow want to think of them as aerial
Honda's and Toyota's. They're not. Like any car that old, doors are going
to
be out of alignment, there'll be dents and dings and cosmetic items, but
also a few lingering mechanical items, too.
As Dave points out, whenever you buy a big, expensive, piece of
interesting
used machinery like a Cessna, Grumman or DeLorean, you're buying a vehicle
that someone else didn't want anymore. And the game is in figuring out
why.
Some lonely, rainy night when you stop for gas and can't get out because
the
door locks won't budge, you can smile to yourself and say "We have a
winner!"
Or, you can budget some fixed figure each month to be used for the
occasional shock absorber, alternator, speedometer cable, etc. etc. etc.
Plan on a DeLorean that costs you $500 a month, and just move that much
around between savings accounts. If you get out for $350, that's great!
Put
that extra $150 aside, though, because somewhere down the road you're
going
to have a $650 month, and it's better to be ready than walking and sorry.
Pilots and boaters have saying that might well apply to unwary DeLorean
owners, too: The happiest days in the life of a
pilot/boater/DeLorean-owner
are the day he BUYS his airplane/boat/DMC, and the day he SELLS it! Don't
lose sight of the fact that these are fifteen year old cars, now. Even a
fifteen year old Mercedes is going to need parts and service from time to
time. If you're good about putting aside some rainy-day cash, you should
do
okay.
- --
Mark D Hiatt Visit us on the new MSN
v2.5!
OttoPilot_MSN@xxxxxxx http://Forums.msn.com/Aviation
Aviation Forum Manager, AvChat Mondays 10pm Eastern
The Microsoft Network
>
>dmcnews-digest Tuesday, December 23 1997 Volume 03 : Number 314
>
>------------------------------
>
> After some initial debugging and repairs, you should expect something
> to go wrong fairly regulaly. If you don't have automotive expertese, or
> don't want to learn and fix the problems yourself, it will be expensive
> to maintain. If you do the work yourself, the parts aren't outrageous.
>
> Parts for my Geo Metro are as expensive as parts for my Delorean.
> And there isn't anyone who can help me with my Metro. There is a
> whole community to help you diagnose and step you through problems
> with your D.
>
> As far as a monthly dollar figure... My first month will be somewhere
> around $600 for parts. But I've only owned it for a month, so this could
> just be a rare month. I'd anticipate those kinda months though.
> Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to stash $100 a month in a "blowout"
> fund. If that accumulates to over $1000, start using the extra to fix
> cosmetics... But most repairs fall under $1000.... Let me know if I'm
> off guys!
>
> Dave
> 16228
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:10:18 -0800
From: Dave Price <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Delorean
At 06:46 AM 12/23/97 -0000, James Epsey wrote:
>On 12/22/97 10:40 PM, Dave Price shared these fine thoughts...
>
>>(unless you pay a high-dollar figure for a loved D, that is.). After some
>>initial debugging and repairs, you should expect something to go wrong
>>fairly regulaly. If you don't have automotive expertese, or don't want to
>
>I don't buy that. If after you do the initial debugging and repairs, you
>STILL have something go wrong fairly regularly, either you didn't do the
>intial debugging and reapirs properly or you didn't do all of them.
Well, fairly regularly meaning every year or so.. But, yes, this is
assuming that you don't completely overhaul the car when you get it...
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:19:28 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: More cold weather problems
Rob Grady also told me that it is best to align the door, then align the
rest of the body panels to the door. Dont try to align the door to the
body! Align it to the door frame.
BTW, i have never done this myself!
Brandon S. Moody wrote:
> Honestly, I don't believe that there is a "Procedure" for this. I
> spoke with
> Mr. Grady once about this and he said sometimes it takes about 30 minutes
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:08:39 -0700
From: raddad@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: Delorean
kI purchased my 1981 DeLorean, new, in 1982. I knew then that it would
be
a car that I would keep longer than any car I had owned up to that time.
After correcting the obvious bugs that all D's suffered, I drove it approx
6000 miles per year.
Other than for elective things -- lowering, turbocharging, etc. -- the
only
thing I di for those nearly 100,000 miles was routine maintenance.
Religious lubrication - loving care to the finish - tires - brakes - hoses
at 60,000 miles and essentially that was it. Oh, I did set aside $100 per
month towards that day when I knew that I would want to bring the car into
"like new" condition.
This year, I traded my pretty, but tired, automatic D for a D which was
two
years newer, had a 5 speed, equipped with new twin turbos, **fully
restored
and warranted** by Rob Grady. The $100 per month I had set aside more
than
covered the trade.
Was my D expensive to drive? I think not.
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:01:42 -0500
From: jsinger@xxxxxxxxxxx (Jack Singer)
Subject: Re: DML: Delorean
raddad@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> kI purchased my 1981 DeLorean, new, in 1982. I knew then that it would be
> a car that I would keep longer than any car I had owned up to that time.
> After correcting the obvious bugs that all D's suffered, I drove it approx
> 6000 miles per year.
>
> Other than for elective things -- lowering, turbocharging, etc. -- the only
> thing I di for those nearly 100,000 miles was routine maintenance.
> Religious lubrication - loving care to the finish - tires - brakes - hoses
> at 60,000 miles and essentially that was it. Oh, I did set aside $100 per
> month towards that day when I knew that I would want to bring the car into
> "like new" condition.
>
> This year, I traded my pretty, but tired, automatic D for a D which was two
> years newer, had a 5 speed, equipped with new twin turbos, **fully restored
> and warranted** by Rob Grady. The $100 per month I had set aside more
> than covered the trade.
>
> Was my D expensive to drive? I think not.
>
> The Rad Dad
I ran my 82 for 85,000 miles and sold it for more than I paid for it.
No problems, it was an automatic and I loved it. Since then I have
purchased two other automatics and have not had a problem. If you take
care of it it will not have problems. Most cars that are trouble makers
seem to be the cars that have sat.
Jack.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:12:31 -0600
From: "Phil Wiltfong" <phildad@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Hey, I think my Delorean is Great! $100 a month???-Nahhh.
OK, so my Delorean only has 9,000 miles on it and I bought it new, always
garaged it and fix it myself...
...but I've not been out hardly over $100 on it in repairs since
1/1982, it always starts and I really enjoy all the attention EVERYONE
gives
me when I do a drive.
I rebuilt the Ducellier diodes once and did my own fix and lube on a
window
motor and jumpered the correct relay socket. That wasn't so bad. Just
try
taking off the heads of a tight motorcycle twin sometime, or simply
replacing a fuel-injector on one of my garage toys. Have I just been
lucky
to have one of the good ones?
Unfortunately, I'll probably have to sell it in the Spring due to family
stuff, but until then, it's still my baby!
Phil Wiltfong/Oklahoma
Vin#3394
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:00:19 EST
From: gt-roadracer@xxxxxxxx (GUY T AVELLON)
Subject: DML: RE: some days I hate my DMC
My first car in 1964 was a '58 Corvette with 56,000 miles. It was pretty,
fast and everything a young college student could ask for , except for
the upkeep. The car made me feel really good...when it ran. It spent a
lot of time in the shop for repairs for this and that and it was only 6
years old!!!
I bought my DeLorean in 1984 and have averaged about $1000 per year for
maintenance: both preventive and repair.
I just added the automotive repair bills I spent this year alone and it
was $2866. But this was for three cars. The D's water pump was the
biggest bill at $777 but expected, I also replaced a water pump on one
other caralong with a harmonic balancer,etc.
However, I spent $2700 on the D before anyone even touched it this
year... it was a fur coat for my wife! I figured if I want the funds for
the car goodies, I have to make sure Momma's happy. That's why I've been
able to keep the car for 13 years.
Be glad you also don't own a Ferrari; you'd literally die after the bill
for the 30,000 mile "check up", which is required and is over $5,000!
But, it's the price of admission to fun cars. Don't count on them as
primary vehicles, but they MUST be driven regularly and well maintained
as eventually all parts atrophy, but it can be delayed with the right
amount of TLC.
GT Avellon
gt-roadracer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 07:34:45 -0000
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: ADMIN NOTE: Subscriber Count - All-Time High
This morning the DeLorean Mailing List added it's 800th subscriber. In
less than two and a half years, people like you have helped make the
DeLorean Mailing List the fastest growing DeLorean enthusiast group, and
second in size only to the DOA.
With 314 digests produced, a wealth of information is available to any
DeLorean owner/enthusiast with access to the web. This is all due to the
efforts of people like you, also.
I started the DeLorean Mailing List in August of 1995 when I had
questions that I either couldn't get adequately answered or answered in a
timely manner. I never would've guessed that I would have the opportunity
to meet so many interesting people from literally all over the world, or
would've made so many friendships with those same people.
Happy holidays, and thanks for a wonderful ride! We have nowhere to go
but up!
James Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:59:33 EST
From: JSteuben <JSteuben@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Delorean
John Z. talked about building an 'ethical' sports car. Consider this,
every
dime that you spend on owning and maintaining a 'prevously owned' car, is
a
sigh of relief for Mother Earth.
And, for what its worth, you as a car owner, are beating the system.
How? For openers, your not killing your machine through casual neglect
and
sending another car to the crusher. Consider how much you are saving by
not
making payments to a bank or a leasing company. How many 'D' parts can
you
buy for the money that you will spend financing a new Neon? And after
that
money is spent, what do you have?
Here in Southern California, having a car is a 'given'. The question is
never
if
I should buy one, but rather what works the best for my needs.
I owned a 1966 MBZ coupe for over 12 years. It was a great car, but one
day I
just got tired of writing $4-500.00 checks and walking out of the Dealer
with
a baggie 1/2 filled with parts.
So I bought a 1986 SVO Mustang. Guess what, my money bought about the
same
sized baggie of parts, when I could get them. Ford dumped the SVO and
stopped
making it's special parts about 1990. So much for Team Ford.
Have I learned my lesson? Hell yes, I was going to buy a RX-7 or a Z-Car
until I talked to my insurance agent (I have a spotless driving record.)
The
Delorean, with all of it's pimples and short-comings, delivers major
bang-for
- -the-buck, and every time I spend money to upgrade and refine it, I think
of
the cost of insuring and registering the other two, and I smile. And so
does
Mother Earth. Peace....Joe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:01:41 EST
From: TGraham999 <TGraham999@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Oil filler cvc
When I took out the "Oil filler cvc" to change my oil, I noticed some
milky
substance on the bottom and some in the engine beneath it...Just like when
water mixes with oil...I say this because the guy said that I have a
broken
head gasket. I am taking the car in to the real mechanic on Jan. 2nd, but
really really really want to drive it around some in the meantime. I've
heard
that the milky stuff is normal on DeLoreans. Is that true? Or is the guy
right in suspecting that I have a blown head gasket? The car runs
perfect,
doesn't smoke, and has good engine compresson.
Thanks,
Travis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 14:00:23 PST
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: More cold weather problems
> Rob Grady also told me that it is best to align the door, then align the
> rest of the body panels to the door. Dont try to align the door to the
> body! Align it to the door frame.
>
> BTW, i have never done this myself!
That is true for cosmetic reasons. But, the hard part
is getting the door to close correctly on both strike
pins , correctly alighning with the seal, and not letting
the latch assemble screws hit the Fill panels. Aligning
the body with the doors is a very easy part :-)
- -Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:58:14 EST
From: TGraham999 <TGraham999@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: website update
Thanks for all of the kind comments regarding the photos on my website!
I've
recently decided to add a "Photo Gallery" which contains better quality
versions of the pix. They are a bit large, but they are the best quality
that
my digital cam can do. I will be adding many good scanned photos soon, so
keep on the lookout.
http://edge.net/~cgraham/delorean.htm
I wish all of you other 799 DML'rs a great Christmas!!!
Travis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:53:20 EST
From: DKazmark <DKazmark@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: my dmc experience
Hello all, and i hope you've all had a nice holiday,
My name is Donald Kazmark and i live out here on long island(about
15minutes from PJ GRADY) and i've been a DeLorean fan all my life.
Unfortunalty, being only 17, i still have some time till i am an owner.
I've
made many trips to PJ GRADY only to be ignored as if i had no idea of how
"special " the cars were. But thats to be expected. What was so cool about
yesterday was that a women who my mother works with brought her D to work
for
me to check out. It was great, 2 and a half hours of just looking the car
over
a thosand times. I must of just sat and opened the doors for at least an
hour.
Even though i didn't even drive it(don't have my lisense yet) the
experience
has just motivated me more to get one as soon as possible. I would like to
thank you all for all the experiences that you share about your car and
how
tell you how much i enjoy checkeing my e-mail everyday just to see whats
going
on . One day i'll finally be able to contribute as i come across problems
with
my own car, but until then keep up the good work James and thanks.
Donald Kazmark
VIN:hopefully soon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 22:09:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: The DMC-12 <msg101@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Mr Sheen.
In response to an e-mail I posted a while back about the best thing to
clean your D, "Mr Sheen" IS available under that name in N. America.
BTW, it is NOT an automotive product, but a furniture cleaner/polish in a
squirty bottle that you should find in a supermarket.
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:19:19 -0800
From: Greg Linstad <gregl@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: DMC for sale; DMC books for sale
FOR SALE- 1981 Delorean- VIN# 3115
A near new car with only 3654 miles. Original NCT tires with "whiskers"
still visible. New car smell inside. Totally clean inside and out, top
and bottom. Driven in rain only two times (actually caught in rain
during "exercise" drive). Driven about once per month or at least
started and allowed to run in garage once per month using all systems,
clutch, brakes, air conditioning, etc. This 5 speed grey interior car
was purchased from the original owner who kept it for 14 years in a
heated garage. He sold it to me because at age 85 he could no longer
drive the car and thought it was time to turn some of his "toys" into
liquid assets. I have put all the factory recalls into this car plus all
the updates known plus Pacific Northwest Delorean Club developed
updates. This car comes with a DMC car cover and the complete owners
wallet with owners guide, warrantees, etc. I have also installed a
hidden, keyed, battery cutoff switch. This car has a set of anti theft
lug nuts. The air conditioning system was totally checked out and
recharged in May '97. Oil has been changed once per year regardless of
mileage. Black DMC floor mats included. Two full sets of keys. This car
has lived in a heated garage all it's life and in the one year plus that
I have owned it, it has lived on a rug, under a cover, in a heated
garage. Looking at the engine compartment or anywhere under this car
would lead anyone to believe that this truly is a new car. Every system
works, everything in perfect working order/ condition. Not one mark on
any of the upholstry. I could go on and on but in the final analysis,
this is a perfect "new" Delorean, and it can be yours for only
$26,000.00 in Seattle, Washington.
Also have:
* two very good condition copies of Stainless Steel Illusion-
$250. each plus $5. S&H
* many copies of Delorean, Dreamaker, Grand Delusion, and Hard
Driving all in good condition, hard bound- all $30. each plus $4. S&H
* Hard Driving in paperback- $12. each plus $2. S&H
* many copies of On A Clear Day, hard bound first and second
edition- $20. each plus $4. S&H. Same book in paperback first and
second edition- $8. each plus $3. S&H
All shipping and handling figures shown above are for U.S. only. For
overseas, call for quote.
Arnie Brandon, Seattle Washington
(425) 746-6132
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 07:53:03 -0800
From: Mickey Mitchell <mwm00@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: ADMIN NOTE: Subscriber Count - All-Time High
James
I think I speak on behalf of everybody on the list when I say "Thank
You" for providing the medium in which all of us can exchange
information, ideas, solutions and most important, creating friendships.
1997 has been a very eventful year for the Delorean community, with
Stephen acquisition of KAPAC topping the list.
I would like to wish James, everyone at DMC Houston, and all 800
subscribers a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Mickey Mitchell
Dallas, TX
VIN# 3408
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #315
*****************************
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