Re: [DML] Rob Grady's Personal Lower Suspension

["K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@xxxxxxxxx>]

Since I had read some of the advance postings, I will not entertain  
this e-mail...

I am apologizing to the community if I have offended anyone...

People NEED to be told and made aware of the facts in the legal  
responsibility of any mods.  Just to share a concern, I know of a  
young man who went bankrupt due to a mod he did to his car.  Bottom  
line, the insurance company found  way to relinquish their obligation  
to cover the suit because of the mod.

Dave and I think alike thus our comments.  Dave is school and  
certified in the automotive.  I am in the aviation.  So on that note,  
people do what you do you feel best when making mods, just remember  
all that is said by all parties....

Kayo Ong
#5508
Lic 9D NY



On Nov 9, 2011, at 5:23 PM, content22207 wrote:

> Please limit this discussion to the front end lower suspension  
> only. Fuel delivery has absolutely nothing to with it.
>
> I installed parts manufactured and sold by DMC franchises, and by  
> Heninger & Associates. Why do you keep insinuating that my front  
> end is "backyard" and "shade tree" engineered? Let me say this once  
> again, real slowly (try to keep up this time): I  
> I...N...S...T...A...L...L...E...D P...A...R...T...S  
> M...A...N...U...F...A...C...T...U...R...E...D A...N...D  
> S...O...L...D B...Y L...O...N...G T...I...M...E  
> E...S...T...A...B...U...L...I...S...H...E...D  
> D...e...L...O...R...E...A...N S...E...R...V...I...V...E  
> C...E...N...T...E...R...S. Are you insinuating that Ed Uding, Dave  
> Swingle, and Byrne Heninger are backyard/shade tree mechanics? If  
> not, you really ought to stop using those terms in this discussion.  
> I installed Ed Uding's brackets, sold by Dave Swingle, and Byrne  
> Heninger's lower control arms -- period. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> As much as you seem to want to dictate my insurance decisions, it  
> my my unhappy task to inform you that insurance is my own private  
> business. I am a grown man, perfectly capable of managing my own  
> affairs. You have absolutely no input into what investments I make,  
> what food I eat, what clothes I wear, etc. Neither do you have any  
> input into my insurance purchases. That is my business alone.
>
> I am terribly sorry that my front end improvements are creating  
> such anxiety for you. Perhaps it would be best for you to avoid  
> reading any more posts in this thread. The thread itself has value  
> -- I have been communicating with two other owners who are  
> interested in doing the same, including butting Ed's brackets  
> against hardened steel washers rather than the shock towers  
> themselves. You obviously feel otherwise. Use your OEM suspension  
> in good health, and hopefully it will never break on you.
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
>
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@...> wrote:
> >
> > "Why?"
> >
> > First, because I see a similar pattern of the" front end" thread
> > being exploited as the "carburetor" thread in the past AND the  
> people
> > JUST FADED away from the continuation of the fruitless  
> discussions...
> > Just as well as another delicate subject of the founder and creator
> > of the DMC not too long ago.... (Although you are right on many  
> points.)
> >
> > Second, you must understand that I am not questioning your  
> talents or
> > your greatness in the ability to conjure up a more efficient device
> > or working systems for any part or system for the DeLorean. (I
> > thought you would like to hear that "positive" pat on the back.)
> >
> > Thirdly, and you STILL haven't address the MAIN issue of insurance
> > with either topics!!! That is MY ONLY question and the
> > "discussion"... INSURANCE COVERAGE!!! The question of legal
> > responsibility in case there is a liability problem when the "said"
> > part or set up fails!!! You must understand, there are many young or
> > naive people reading these posts about your conversions and they  
> need
> > to be told of THEIR responsibilities in case they follow your  
> ways in
> > doing these conversions.... (I have gotten calls from young owners
> > asking for an opinion of your postings.)
> >
> > Fourthly, and AGAIN, you use references to the various businesses  
> and
> > the people you had mentioned to justified or to compare your front
> > end design. The difference is that they are (and should) be backed
> > up by an insurance policy? That MAKES them legal and liable when
> > they are doing business. Which MEANS, if their parts, components and
> > services fails or faults, THERE IS the insurance policy that will
> > back them. A "Back yard" mechanics and "Shade Tree" mechanics HAVE
> > NO insurance to back them, UNLESS they do "hold a policy" as to  
> cover
> > their work and the components that are installed. And in the
> > industries, these part and set ups that are not recognized are  
> called
> > "Rube Goldberg" and etc....
> >
> > Lastly, will you back up someone who takes on your design and there
> > is a mishap in your design/engineering? Just remember, when there is
> > a failure which causes "Bodily Harm" (including death) and there IS
> > NO insurance or approval, WHO IS GOING TO BE YOUR DADDY? As I have
> > said, your front end (and or carburetor) are not the question, just
> > the subject of liability that is associate to them.
> >
> > I am sure those reading these posts will understand my direction of
> > my thread...
> >
> > Kayo Ong
> > #5508
> > Lic 9D NY
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:30 AM, content22207 wrote:
> >
> > > Why are you even mentioning carburetion? This discussion is about
> > > front end lower suspension. Please keep the discussion on topic.
> > >
> > > My front end is upgraded with a brackets that appear to be DMCH
> > > approved, and Byrnes LCA's. You can complain about Byrne's  
> LCA's if
> > > you want, but note that they are not worlds removed from Bryan's
> > > LCA's that Houston used to sell, and which Houston is still using
> > > for its own purposes.
> > >
> > > Bill Robertson
> > > #5939
> > >
> > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill:
> > > >
> > > > You say: "DMCH markets itself as the closet thing to Dummury"  
> and
> > > you
> > > > added that "hardly 'backyard'." I am not sure of your
> > > > implication??? The DMHC operating as a business should have  
> business
> > > > insurance. The business insurance should have an "umbrella  
> coverage"
> > > > as to back up the products they sell, why we as customer  
> would not
> > > > worry about the products brought.
> > > >
> > > > As I have said, people can conjured up and make nice workable
> > > > modifications.... And these mods may work well... But, when the
> > > > modified parts fails, what will be the outlook and the  
> position that
> > > > the underwriting insurance company take?
> > > >
> > > > And as far as the other "stateside DMC franchise" vendors  
> selling
> > > > another person or company's manufactured products, it only means
> > > that
> > > > they sell the parts. And again, hopefully for them that they  
> have
> > > > business insurance or product liability insurance to cover
> > > themselves
> > > > as well.
> > > >
> > > > You brought up Rob's Green DeLorean, I am sure Rob has his  
> business
> > > > insurance to cover his Green DeLoreans front end. I do  
> believe that
> > > > when he puts his "NYS Dealer" plates on it, there is an umbrella
> > > > coverage? Also, if Rob does something to his Green DeLorean  
> and for
> > > > what he ALSO do for his customer, he ALWAYS has "liability"  
> with the
> > > > products or service on his mind... Do ask me and I will personal
> > > tell
> > > > you on several issues!!!
> > > >
> > > > As for Ed Uding, he should have insurance for the products he  
> sells
> > > > as well and all of the people that are involved in selling his
> > > > products? (Foolish if he and they don't.)
> > > >
> > > > Many DMLers have seen your front-end creation and you maybe  
> right on
> > > > your findings and many will side with you to the point that  
> owners
> > > > will consider your findings as gospel and they will installed  
> your
> > > > mods into their DeLoreans. Now suppose, let's say some years  
> or a
> > > > decade goes by and something really drastic happens to a  
> converted
> > > > DeLorean where "bodily harm" is involved. Do you think the  
> insurance
> > > > of the DeLorean involved will be covered when they discovered  
> the
> > > > undocumented conversion is the caused of the problem? I  
> believe the
> > > > insurance company will not cover the damages of property and the
> > > > people involved, because it was not disclosed to them (lied or
> > > > deceptive)...
> > > >
> > > > I am curious, if your insurance policy covers your modify  
> DeLorean?
> > > > Do you or have you the need to inform them that your DeLorean  
> front
> > > > end is no longer original and modified?
> > > >
> > > > Bill, I really don't know you or your lifestyle. You are  
> articulate
> > > > and do come off very well in depth in what you believe and  
> what you
> > > > do with your DeLorean and you do have an adequate answer for all
> > > when
> > > > questioned. I can respect that, but in these cases your  
> carburetor
> > > > mod and the front-end mod are two major differences when  
> something
> > > > should go wrong. You need to tell people that failure is an  
> option
> > > > as well... As for your car, the worst that can happen with your
> > > > carburetor modification is fire to your DeLorean and will stop
> > > > running and on the worst, you may not get paid by the insurance.
> > > > With the front end and whilst in motion, it can be disastrous  
> for
> > > > people in the DeLorean and the innocent people around the  
> DeLorean
> > > > should failure arises. But on the other hand, your modified  
> front
> > > > end can last forever... Who knows... Insurance is the my only  
> issue
> > > > on my long winding thread with the mods/conversions.... Nothing
> > > more,
> > > > nothing less. Remember, a suer can change your world if there is
> > > > "no" or "inadequate" insurance coverage...
> > > >
> > > > BTW, FWIW, two years ago I had witness on the I-495 Eastbound  
> of the
> > > > Long Island Expressway's shoulder, there was a brand new bright
> > > > Yellow Ferrari with the right side of front end down with the  
> bumper
> > > > sitting on wheel that was lying flat on the road. It seems to  
> me the
> > > > front end had collapsed. The Ferrari had not struck any other  
> car on
> > > > the road. Luck for him it was a just an embracement for there  
> was a
> > > > very long tattletale skid mark from the road right into the dirt
> > > > shoulder. When all of these threads of the front-end mods  
> came on
> > > > the DML, all that came to my mind was the Bright Yellow  
> Ferrari on
> > > > the side of the road....
> > > >
> > > > Kayo Ong
> > > > #5508
> > > > Lic. 9D NY
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 8, 2011, at 7:42 PM, content22207 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > DMCH markets itself as the closest thing to Dunmurry -- hardly
> > > > > "backyard." Ed Uding's brackets are made by one DMC  
> franchise, and
> > > > > sold stateside by another DMC franchise, so I assume they have
> > > > > Houston's blessing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > > #5939
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@>  
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I had expected an answer of such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is great for everyone to talk about the enhanced
> > > performance and
> > > > > > the achievements to produce the components, but no one is
> > > addressing
> > > > > > the liability area when the modified component fails....
> > > Especially
> > > > > > the front end components of this subject.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When one thinks about modifying their cars and they  
> should check
> > > > > with
> > > > > > their insurance provider to see if they will cover the
> > > > > > modifications. Without informing the insurance company to  
> the
> > > > > > installed modifications, most likely the insurance companies
> > > will
> > > > > > quickly look at it as a loophole and to avoid offering  
> any legal
> > > > > > support and payment when the disaster occurs. Although to  
> get
> > > > > > coverage is not impossible, I was told that some insurance
> > > companies
> > > > > > would cover ANYTHING if the "premiums" were in THEIR favor,
> > > so one
> > > > > > will pay a pricey premium for the coverage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The differences with components from established companies
> > > and home
> > > > > > brew parts are the companies who are advertising and selling
> > > their
> > > > > > modify components should have some type of insurance? For if
> > > they
> > > > > > are operating as a company, they should have product  
> liability
> > > > > > insurance as to cover their products? So, the purchaser  
> who have
> > > > > > these components correctly installed can hold the company
> > > > > responsible
> > > > > > for law suit resulting from failures that can incur?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The independent person as a "back yard mechanic" or  
> "shade tree
> > > > > > mechanic" operating on their own with their "home brewed  
> parts,"
> > > > > > usually has no product liability or a business insurance
> > > coverage
> > > > > and
> > > > > > that can be a legal liability problem for the owner of the
> > > vehicle
> > > > > > involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Modifications can be a great thing for the car owner with  
> the
> > > > > > installed mod components and it can become costly and life
> > > changing
> > > > > > when they fail without the insurance coverage.... And the  
> way
> > > people
> > > > > > are instigated to sue heavily by their lawyer -- They  
> will be
> > > suing
> > > > > > for everything (for they get at least one third of the
> > > awardment).
> > > > > > In today's climate with lawsuits, a basic coverage is not
> > > enough...
> > > > > > If the insurance company don't cover the suit completely,
> > > then one
> > > > > > can be held responsible for the balance and be in  
> bankruptcy?
> > > Not a
> > > > > > good thing....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kayo Ong
> > > > > > #5508
> > > > > > Lic 9D NY
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Michael Griese wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nobody here can answer that question accurately. You would
> > > need to
> > > > > > > take it up
> > > > > > > with your insurance company in your state. As an example,
> > > whatever
> > > > > > > State Farm
> > > > > > > covers in New York may not be the same as what State Farm
> > > > > covers in
> > > > > > > Minnesota or
> > > > > > > what Geico would cover in New York.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > From: K.L. (KAYO) Ong <klo@>
> > > > > > > To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Sent: Tue, November 8, 2011 2:56:29 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [DML] Rob Grady's Personal Lower Suspension
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had posted a question a while back on this subject  
> and it
> > > was
> > > > > left
> > > > > > > unanswered. These modifications by everyone are a major
> > > structural
> > > > > > > change for the front end. I believed all these  
> modifications
> > > > > are not
> > > > > > > the original DMC engineering from decades ago that are on
> > > filed as
> > > > > > > DMC-12. Although the modifications ARE improvements. The
> > > > > > > questions are: What happens and if there is a failure  
> and and
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > are "property" and or "bodily harm" caused by failure?  
> Will
> > > the
> > > > > > > insurance company STILL cover the mishap? Or will they  
> wash
> > > their
> > > > > > > hands of the matter? I am curious and not cleared in this
> > > area.
> > > > > Law
> > > > > > > suits can be a financial disaster, if not life changing if
> > > > > there is
> > > > > > > no coverage for the modifications.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kayo Ong
> > > > > > > #5508
> > > > > > > Lic 9D NY
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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