To all that know better about electricity and how to treat a first time poster...

["sk1pper" <sk1pper@xxxx>]

 First I'd like to say to all that have slammed me over the alternator post I gave, know what you are saying and to whom you are saying it before you open your mouth as it were. I will give you credit that you probably know more about Deloreans than I, but you probably do not know more about electricity or low voltage systems.

Second. As a new member of this board, it is not very comforting to see such hostility toward a post. If a post is wrong, incorrect, or misleading then kindly respond to the message. The slamming is not indicative of a friendly chat room. I will continue to read the messages posted, but this will more than likely be my last post.

Now, lets clear the air here and state the facts and allow me to respond to your comments. 

"Secondly.... after starting the car and backing it out
for a nice 200 mile drive (now that i can see how much
gas i have), i happened to glance over at my battery
meter.. it was almost to 0.... like the alternator
wasnt working..... it was fine before... i am
wondering if maybe i screwed something up putting the
tankzilla in???? When the needle goes down to the
bottom like that, does it mean the battery, or, worse,
i need to get an alternator???? I am going to
disconnect the tanzilla tommorow and see if that
helps.. if it does maybe its grounding somewhere, if
not... i guess i'll buy the battery and if that doesnt
work, head for the alternator..."

The problem, as I understood it was that the battery meter was not reading any voltage. Four things come to mind at this point. 
a.. One, the installation of the Tankzilla was not performed correctly. 
b.. Two, the battery has a damaged cell(s) causing a direct short. 
c.. Three, the alternator is not producing a charge and the car is running off the battery only. 
d.. Four, the battery meter is damaged or came unhooked.

Issue one: the Tankzilla is not installed correctly. As I personally have not dealt with this product, I will not venture a guess. Call for technical assistance.

Issue two: the battery has a damaged cell(s) causing a direct short. Direct shorts in 12VDC batteries are evident by two indicators. 
1.. One is the physical warping or marking of the casing. When a battery cell breaks down, the positively charged particles are not held separate from the negatively charged electrons by the internal plates. This causes the two oppositely charged particles to come in contact with each other. At this point, the effect on the battery will become evident in one of two ways. First, if there is sufficient contact between these two polarities, the battery will "short out" if the transfer is a slow and steady one. Or second, if the transfer is rapid, the chemical reaction will generate heat and warp the battery casing leaving a light black or charcoal ring around the outside in the location of the breakdown, or the chemical reaction will become too much for the housing to withstand, causing it to fail and leak. This is known as The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics.
There are several indicators to this action:

a.. Smell. Since all chemical reaction must either require heat or produce heat, and there is no introduction of an external heat source to the transfer, then heat must be generated. This is known as an exothermic reaction. The result of this exothermic reaction will be the excitement of the carcinogenic molecules produced by this reaction. This in turn will excite the neighboring molecules. This would be the transfer of the carcinogenic molecules and thus a burnt or burning smell would be evident.
b.. Electrical Dissipation. On the other hand, if the above mentioned transfer was not sufficient enough, Ohm's Law would. Electricity must also abide by scientific law. Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it must be transferred or converted. The dissipation of the voltage/amperage will result of insufficient voltage or amperage in the form of an electrical short. The signs of this transfer will be manifested by dimming lights, stalls, or dead batteries.
Issue three: the alternator is not producing a charge and the car is running off the battery only. If the alternator was not producing the correct voltage/amperage the signs would be different than a damaged battery. An alternator produces a charge close to the manufactures specification. However, Ohm's Law states that voltage and amperage is inversely proportional to each other. In other words, as the voltage increases, the amperage decreases, and as the voltage decreases, the amperage increases. 


"NO! NEVER DISCONNECT THE BATTERY WITH THE CAR RUNNING TO TEST THE 
ALTERNATOR! That battery acts as a real big voltage regulator. 
Without it connected, the alternator can produce power spikes that can 
and WILL blow out electronic equipment. (Just like how jump-starting 
can shorten the life of the auto trans computer govenor). This 
process may have been alright on real old cars that contained no 
electronics, but any modern car (especially the D) contains very 
fragile electronics that will be damaged if you conduct this 
procedure. This has been brought up before, Les, perhaps this is 
somthing for your newbie startup guide."

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960




"What you really mean is a sure way to blow the alternater and all of 
the sensitive electrical components! I know of NO procedure that 
advocates disconnecting the alternater while the motor is running! Put 
a voltmeter on the battery, read the voltage, start the motor and read 
again after about 1 minute. It should read at least .5 volts higher. A 
better test is to use an alternater tester which measures ripple so as 
to determine if any diodes are shot and full load output. 
Disconnecting the alternater while the motor is running will send a 
surge of over 100 volts through the system. If it doesn't cause 
outright damage immediatly you will see things happen later like bulbs 
blowing and computers dying. (Take note if automatic!)
* HINT* A quick and dirty way to see if the alternater is charging 
is to take something magnetic (like a pocket knife) and hold it close 
the the bearing on the end of the rotor away from the pulley. You will 
feel a strong magnetic attraction if the alternater is charging the 
battery. This is not a quantitative test, just a go-no go way to see 
if the alternater is working at all. You could also use a test light. 
It should be a little brighter when the motor is running then when it 
is off. There is no substitute for good test equipment and the 
knowledge to use it."
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



DON'T DO THAT!!!!! THAT IS WRONG!!!!!
Do not remove the battery leads with engine running. You can do a lot of
damage. A battery serves two purposes: 1) as a voltage regulator and 2) a
load for the alternator. Without the battery the alternator (regulator
inside it to be exact) will sense that there is no voltage from the battery,
meaning the battery is dead or there is a BIG load on the system. So it will
pump ALL it can from the alternator with nowhere to go (because there is no
load - battery). Also without the battery the regulator cannot adjust the
votage correctly. Because of that you can get 68 volts in the system... even
more. A healthy alternator is actually able to put about 80 volts out!!
Imagine what that will do to all the electronics in your car!! Radio, lambda
ECU, idle speed ECU and if your car happens to be automatic you'll have to
replace the transmission governor.
So, don't remove the battery leads with the engine running.
And people please don't tell others that this is a way to test your
alternator!!!

To whoever you are - sk1pper. Please make sure that you have acurate and
safe info before you post to the list.

BTW, why do we have moderators on this list? Guys, I'm sure you've heard all
the coments about this way of 'testing' a car. Please, please, please don't
pass posts like this to the list. Somebody might do a lot of damage to the
car destroying every electronics circuit in the car and in extreme
situations it can actually cause fire. Since all that power from the
alternator has nowhere to go it will dissipate as heat in wires and that can
lead to FIRE!!!


According to these responses, two completely and opposite electrical conditions will occur. One will cause a spike, bypassing all fused links, and damage the computer and electrical equipment, and the second will damage the alternator, which produces the electrical current, and the electrical computers all at once. According to these "facts" as the load is removed the voltage and the amperage will increase damaging the components on the other side of the fuse box. According to Ohm's Law, this is an electrical impossibility. Second, even if this law could be broken, these sure things allude that the voltage will "push" the amperage passed the fused links and force too much into the vehicles systems destroying them. 

Ironically, sticking a pocket knife near a spinning electrical item is a safer and a more precise way to measure electrical current than a multimeter.

"A quick and dirty way to see if the alternator is charging is to take something magnetic (like a pocket knife) and hold it close the the bearing on the end of the rotor away from the pulley. You will feel a strong magnetic attraction if the alternater is charging the battery. This is not a quantitative test, just a go-no go way to see if the alternater is working at all...There is no substitute for good test equipment and the knowledge to use it."



If this were true, the above would happen every time a battery would go bad. So the correct response should be:



"WARNING ALL! MAKE SURE THAT YOUR BATTERY IS WORKING 
PROPERLY AT ALL TIMES OR YOUR CAR WILL CATCH ON FIRE!"


"To whoever you are - sk1pper. Please make sure that you have acurate and safe info before you post to the list."
BTW, why do we have moderators on this list? Guys, I'm sure you've heard all
the coments about this way of 'testing' a car. Please, please, please don't
pass posts like this to the list. Somebody might do a lot of damage to the
car destroying every electronics circuit in the car and in extreme
situations it can actually cause fire. Since all that power from the
alternator has nowhere to go it will dissipate as heat in wires and that can
lead to FIRE!!!

As a certified national electrical low voltage technician certified by NICET, NFPA, NBFAA, LBFAA, and test certified by NEC, in addition to 14+ years in the electrical field, in coordination with ASE certified training, producing over seven award winning vehicles and testing and installing a 140a alternator that properly works on my Delorean (www.sk1pper.com) AND six weeks of research in coordination with AC DELCO, GM, and O'Riley technicians, I think I do know what I am doing... 













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