dmcnews-digest Monday, January 25 1999 Volume 03 : Number 473
In this issue:
Re: DML: North California Delorean shop?
DML: Re: Wheel Bearings
DML: Re:DMC Tid-Bits
DML: N CA Repair Shop
Re: DML: N CA Repair Shop
DML: Inertia Switch, Lockzilla, Fanzilla
DML: JAMEEL'S PJ GRADY STORY
DML: Power Windows
DML: St. Louis Expo '99
DML: BTTF VIN
DML: Master brake cylinder
DML: P J Grady
DML: 1983 DMC for Sale
DML: Tire pressure.
DML: Fwd: Abandoned De Lorean photos
DML: changes by VIN
DML: DeLorean Services OFF LINE
DML: Re: Power Windows
Re: DML: changes by VIN
DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: changes by VIN
Re: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: P J Grady
DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: RE: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: Re: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: EVENT: British Car Days, Las Cruces, New Mexico
DML:alabama owners
Re: DML: changes by VIN
DML: DeLorean at raffle - tickets available
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection [long]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:12:44 -0800
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: North California Delorean shop?
At 01:31 PM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I am going to need some somewhat major work done on my car. Has anyone
>had any good experience with a shop or mechanic in Northern California,
>specifically the SF Bay Area? I would rather take my car to a place
>that has at least heard of DeLoreans before I bring them mine. Thanks
reply:
Hello Ben,
Yes there is a very good shop you can take your De Lorean to.
ACE Automotive in Berkeley CA. The do all my work and have complete
manuals, parts list, and official DMC update information. They also have
open contact with all the De Lorean parts suppliers. You can find the
telephone number in the phone book.
Lee
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:33:24 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Wheel Bearings
Sean,
No!
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@xxxxxxx
- ----------
> From: Sean Howley <tsuyoi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: DMC News <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: DML: Wheel Bearings
> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:55 PM
>
> This weekend, I am tearing down all of my brakes and replacing the =
> fluid, caliper piston seals, brake lines (with SS braided), and cross =
> drilled rotors. When I got the hub off, I noticed (it had not occurred =
> to me before that it would be this way) that the wheel bearings are =
> sealed bearings.
>
> My question: is there any lubrication that I need to provide for these =
> bearings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean Howley
> VIN#2345
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:17:45 -0600
From: "roberthparker@xxxxxxxxxxx" <roberthparker@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re:DMC Tid-Bits
Greetings to
all!! As I don't
own a computer, it is a challenge to retrieve & respond to the DML. So,
I've made a list of info I would like to share w/all. My
congrats to Lisa on becoming part of an "elite" group. On the oil ?---I
put an Amsoil filter & 10W40 in my DMC before I drove to the Vegas Conv.
Amsoil is the first synthetic oil, with a VERY long change
interval(approx. 30,000mi). All other synth. have a much shorter
interval. ck in yellow pages--Petroleum-Synth., or business pages under
AMSOIL-Ind. Dist. Good Stuff, Maynard!!! I'm also saving penneys for
an AMSOIL Life-time air filter---
~$25. Other
stuff: Charley Muffley in Bethleham, PA gave me the idea of installing
a solid SS clutch line. So, for $5 I got 10' of tubing, & after a bit
of bending, folding, mutilating , & 2 dble-flared ends ($3) I added
solid SS reliability---several years of trouble-free shifting ago.
I recently replaced the F.P. retaining boot & the 2 attached fuel
lines. After cking local hydraulic supply shops, I found the IDENTICAL
hi-press. fuel lines for about $2 for that 18" tube, compared to
$10.30-$10.80 per line. If I can help anyone with those parts, call me @
918-832-0634 (Very late) or e-mail--roberthparker@xxxxxxxxxxxx BIG
price diff. Removal from the fittings is simple: Snugly vice the
fitting, pull back the 2 layers covering the plastic tube, apply flame
where tube covers fitting, BRIEFLY, & tug line off fitting. TAA-DAAAA!!
Attach new line with a dash of oil (or saliva works). Push all the way
on. If one can acquire a length of O2 tubing, I've
found that works quite well for bleeding brakes, clutches, & H2O pumps.
The end slides snugly over fittings for a clean job. RE:
climate control panel illum.-- Shortly after acquiring my DMC (7/82) I
had the dealer move the power wire from the ign. to the panel dimmer
switch. BIG diff. in panel temp. Now lights controlled by headlight
switch. I once received a ticket
for driving with my door open here in Tulsa. ("Reckless Driving" @ 0130
- --he must have been bored) Took it to court- beat it- carry dismissed
ticket in glove box for other times I have been stopped. I never exceed
street speed limit-40MPH. ("Hey, why is your door open?!!" "It's better
than T-TOPS!!") My little brother is an
Elect. Eng./ Gadgeteer & would enjoy tinkering with any non-functioning
Craig radios. I have schematic. Contact me to dispose of yours.
On departing, I have the remains of the dealer DMC parts inventory.
When I figure out how to do an attatchment, I'll list the parts I don't
plan to keep. If I may be of assistance, contact me as above. As I
do ~98% of my own repairs, I have collected a bit of Delorean know-how,
too. BTW, I had to have my fuel system overhauled, replacing everything
BUT the fuel distr. It was salvaged by soaking it in BG44K fuel system
cleaner. POWERFUL stuff, & not cheap. 1 can per ~20 gal. ea. 5000mi. @
~$16 per can. More good stuff, Maynard!!!! Enjoy the ride!!
I'll make more notes for
later. Robert VIN
6924 Spec.
Tag AgBULIT
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:11:19 -0800
From: Matthew Peak <mpeak@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: N CA Repair Shop
Ben,
Check out a place called Continental Motors in Sunnyvale, just outside of
San Jose. They specialize in Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Mercedes,
BMW,
and service about a dozen Deloreans a year. I had them do over a
thousand
dollars worth of labor on my car in 1997, including Delorean
specific/difficult work like replacing the window regulators. I am very
pleased with the results. The owner, Rick, is friendly and he and his
mechanic seem to know what they are doing. If you go, please let him
know
that I referred you.
Matt Peak
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:48:33 -0800 (PST)
From: thomas reed <reedted@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: N CA Repair Shop
I have also visited Continental Motors, and I wish I could say I had as
good
an experience. I had over $1,000 worth of work done to the cooling
system of
my D and the problem was never solved- it didn't even get any better. I
was
never really satisfied with any of the work this shop did for me, and
while
the owner seemed honest and friendly, I can't recommend his skills as a
Delorean
mechanic. I later took my car to Delorean One, and they were able to fix
it.
Ed Bernstein said the parts Continental had installed were good parts,
and
installed well, but not Delorean parts. Since he was able to solve my
problem
when no one else could, I tend to trust his opinion. If you really want
your
car fixed, Delorean One can do the job, but it'll cost you. I think it's
worth
the extra $$$.
Ed Reed
VIN 3117
>
>Ben,
>
>Check out a place called Continental Motors in Sunnyvale, just outside of
>San Jose. They specialize in Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW,
>and service about a dozen Deloreans a year. I had them do over a thousand
>dollars worth of labor on my car in 1997, including Delorean
>specific/difficult work like replacing the window regulators. I am very
>pleased with the results. The owner, Rick, is friendly and he and his
>mechanic seem to know what they are doing. If you go, please let him
>know that I referred you.
>
>Matt Peak
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:38:18 -0500
From: "R. Starling" <doctor280@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Inertia Switch, Lockzilla, Fanzilla
Thanks to everyone for the help with the inertia switch wiring. My switch
has been relocated to the bracket that holds the service counter, so I got
just a little confused. But hey I got the thing working and I feel safer
knowing that it is working. Thank you Steve Wynne for your help on this
problem.
Also, today I installed Lockzilla and Fanzilla. I am so pleased with Rob's
products, that I can hardly contain myself.
I have got working door locks now, something that I did not have.
Also Rob Grady took the time over the phone to help me locate the reason
my
fans started running all the time again. Yes another bad temp. sending
switch. My Delorean has ate four of these things in the past 18 months.
Rob
sent me a Volvo sending switch that should take care of this problem for
good.
Got to try out the AC today (65 degrees outside) with the Fanzilla
installed
in the D. Let me tell you that all the good things that you have heard
about
this unit are true and if you dont have it, get it. The staging of the
fans
makes the D so much more enjoyable to drive. Heck on the highway I can not
even tell that the AC is even cycling anymore. Smooth as glass. Two thumbs
up!!! Thanks Rob.
Robert Starling
Vin#5252
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:36:23 +1100
From: Lance Haslewood <lanceh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: JAMEEL'S PJ GRADY STORY
I thoroughly enjoyed Jameel's article and pictures of PJ Gradys'. Jameel
was obviously very satisfied with Rob's workmanship keen to promote it.
Both my son and I attended the DeLorean Expo in LA last September which
we thoroughly enjoyed, especially the presentation by Rob. Having met
Rob and listening to his technical expertise, I somewhat envisaged his
business to be in a large-type premises with plenty of staff. To the
contrary ... Jameel's photos portray rather small, quaint and
personalised enterprise. It's these small and personalised services
which always offer the best service and customer support. Having read
the numerous messages in support of Rob (and having met him personally),
I can fully understand why Rob is so popular.
Recently my son ordered replacement gas struts for our DeLorean from Rob.
We had them in a matter of days.
While in LA, I visited Don Steger's DMC Motor Centre. His business is
somewhat similar to Rob's. Don has to park most of his cars on the
street each day. The day I was there, there were DeLoreans parked on
both sides of the street, probably about ten in all.
If readers are interested, perhaps I can post a few photos of Don's
premises (with his concurrence).
Regards,
Lance Haslewood
Australia
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:40:34 EST
From: Jimbo0946@xxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Power Windows
To all DMLer's
I am ahaving a little trouble with the power windows in my D.
First,
the passenger side does not work at all. Second, the driver side will go
down, but not up. DMCJOE suggested I use contact spray on the contacts.
Before I do anything, I just want to make sure that I am doing it right.
I
pulled the power window switch up from the console. Do I spray the
contact
spray on the metal that is visible on the switch? Also, how do you take
off
the interior door panel? I would really like to know. Any help will be
appreciated. Thanks in advance.
JimmyC
VIN#15880
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:05:27 -0700
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: DML: St. Louis Expo '99
We are scheduling our vacation time for this year. We are trying to
decide
if we will attend the DOA Expo '99 in St. Louis.
Who on the list is planning to attend?
It would be more fun for me if I knew that there would be a large group of
DMCNEWS members there.
Scott Mueller
Mobile, AL
1981/002981 DOA-5031 DMCNEWS
Contact me about the "Deep South DeLorean Owners Club"
www.zebra.net/~scottmueller/Web%20Page/aaanothe.htm
Remember April 3, 1999 - Camillia Classic Car Show in Mobile Alabama
May 1, 1999 - Blount British Car Show, Townsend TN
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:14:14 -0500
From: Brian Henderlong <bhenderlong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: BTTF VIN
Hey, everyone --
During a trip this weekend to Universal Studios in Orlando, a generous
security guard let me jot down the VIN of the DeLorean parked outside the
BTTF ride...
SCEDT26TXBD006475
The BTTF wires on the dashboard were partially covering the VIN plate,
making it hard to tell whether the 'X' was really an 'X' or an '8.' I
hope
this information is either helpful or interesting to someone!
Take care,
Brian Henderlong
HFO (Hopeful Future Owner)
mailto:bhenderlong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 05:20:07 EST
From: Msstrygrl@xxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Master brake cylinder
>>I also own a Triumph and had the same problem
with pitting of the master cylinder. I sent the master to
"Apple Hydraulics" and they re-sleeved it with stainless
steel.<<
I did call "Apple Hydraulics" and they said they could re-sleeve my master
brake cylinder for about seventy dollars. That idea appealed to me, except
that I'd have to be without the use of my car for quite awhile (it was
going to take about a week and a half including shipping time) and as a
new owner I just couldn't be patient. So instead my friend and I went
to a brake place in S.F. called "Quality Brake Supply" which we were told
had a large inventory of brake parts for old cars. We brought the old
brake
cylinder with us and left it with the brake guy for an hour, while he
searched through his books. He came up with one which he had in stock
that was an almost precise match to the Ds Girling/Lucus. It was
designed for the '73 Volvo 140 series. It was brand new, and cost $85.
Getting it mounted did take some minor adjustments but we did
get it on and working and it cured my sinking brake pedal problem.
For anyone interested, the number of Apple Hydraulics is 1-800-882-7753.
(I didn't ask, but I'd guess they probably sleeve clutch cylinders as
well.)
Lisa
VIN 1353
Produced May '81
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:21:03 EST
From: JAlbin@xxxxxxx
Subject: DML: P J Grady
Several years ago I had a tough decision to make, either junk the DMC-12
or
make a major investment in refurbishing it. I did three phone interviews,
Houston, LA, and New York (Robb). Robb gave me the best phone answers, no
hard sell. Although I live in Washington DC, I worked in New York at the
time
so I took the Long Island Railroad from Manhatten out to Robb's Shop.
His wife Debbie picked me up at the station and drove me to the shop. I
checked it out and talked with Robb for about two hours. He picked up my
car
about six weeks later.
It was about four months before Robb started on my car and six months (at
least) before he finished and that was frustrating. But Rob is a small
businessman and has to sandwich in the small and local jobs to keep the
cash
flow positive.
He used only quality parts including some replacement "zilla" componets
which
he designed himself. He is not cheap, but the work quality is excellent.
Since I've gotten my car back, Robb has been free and generous with his
advise
to me and the local mechanic who looks after my car.
I'd recommend Robb to anyone considering major surgery to their "D" car.
Jim Albin
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:29:54 -0600
From: Thomas Bohmier <Bohmier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: 1983 DMC for Sale
Members and Lurkers:
Here is your opportunity to have one of the last DMC's manufactured. I
want to buy "another toy" and I don't have enough room!
As many of you know, there were not many 1983 models made and their
value is traditionally higher, based upon manufacturing improvements.
Here is the information on my extremely well maintained and carefully
diven car:
* 1983 Model - Manufactured in August 1992 (Vin 15,XXX)
* Gray Interior (seats look like new because they have been covered
in sheep skin covers for long time)
* No Cracked Dash or Binnacle (after market dash cover in place - a
perfectionist would re-color dash, due to sun fade)
* Five Speed (new master cylinder and adjustments)
* New Cooling Fan
* DMC Radio in Box - new high power JVC "shaft" mount radio (looks
original)
* Installed 3 1/2" Infiniti speakers in dash to replace front ASI
speakers
* Electric Rear Fender Antenna
* Yokohoma Tires - Factory Originals Included too (for concourse
purposes)
* Spare Rear Wheel
* Extensive Service Manual (Delorean One and DMCA combined)
* No electrical "ghosts and gremlins"
* Never had a "starting problem" or "left stranded"
* Never Wrecked
* Extremely Clean Car and next step is Concourse restoration
* 62,500 +/- miles
* Serviced, Updated and Preventative Maintenance done by DMC Houston
7/98 ($5,000.00 bill)
* Estimated value, by Steve Wynne of DMC Houston, of $20,000.00 (need
to fix a "ding" behind rear wheel)
* First $16,000.00 takes it home!
I am usually a moving target and only get into e-mail once or twice a
week. Therefore you should page me @ 214-249-8436 for information.
Thomas Bohmier
Dallas, Texas
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:19:49 -0800
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Tire pressure.
Out of curiousity, how accureate is the odometer & the spedometer in
relation to tire pressure? Since the probe for both is located directly on
the wheel itself (and not in the tranny), what should be the average
pressure for the tire to get an accurate reading? i.e. underinflated tire
=
higher milage & speed readout, while overinflated tire = less miles on the
odometer & lower mph on the speedo. Just curious...
- -Robert
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 99 18:36:09 -0000
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Fwd: Abandoned De Lorean photos
- ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 01/21 12:46 AM
Received: 01/20 6:18 PM
From: Graham Povey, graham@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The subscribers to your mailing list may be interested in two photos I
recently put on my website.
I came across the car September last year in a large town in the
Netherlands. Some locals I spoke to told me it had been there a year and
showed me it was unlocked by opening the doors.
You can find the photos at:
http://www.gspovey.demon.co.uk/garage/wrench.htm
- --
Graham Povey
1980 TVR Taimar
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:58:51 +0000
From: "darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: changes by VIN
There may not have been a listing of changes by VIN put out by the
factory,
but some 12 years ago I put one together based on the various update
bulletins and notations in the parts book. Just bear in mind that due to
many factors including work done at the Quality Assurance Centers and
possibly by former owners, this list is far from authoritative. But its a
place to start.
DMC Production Changes (from best available data)
Starting at VIN:
763 +/- changed clutch, throwout bearing, clutch fork
1201 added #106731 vinyl coated wiring clips
1234 changed to long coolant hoses at water pump
1346 added gaiter (boot) above steering column
1751 changed steering rack
1792 changed headliners
1884 changed to silver wheels
1964 changed style of A/C face plate
2333-5600 ball joint recall
2680 changed drive axle flange from #100171 to #110539
2711 changed to windshield without antenna
3200 hood without flap (from #109096 to #109134)
3200 non-locking gas cap #110129
3600 changed fascias from #100310 & 100311 to #110122 &
1101213
3850 temp switch retaining clip from #108633 to #110177
4080 A/C freon charge reduced from 2.75 lb to 2.2 lb
4188 door locks #101419, keys #106244, 109100 & A109100
changed
to door locks #110192 and complete lock set #108003
4539 changed to Motorola alternator #110101
4783 added fuel tank baffle #110155
4817 changed A/T shift lever to #110095
5179 changed lower speedo cable from #101412 to shorter #111412
5238 changed fuel guage sender from #105183 to #110555
5930 changed mirrors from #100586 & 100587 to #110418 & 110419
5993 door pull straps moved rearward
6093 changed door panels from #100428 & 100429 (gray) and
#110170
& 110171 (black) to #110251 & 110252 (gray) and #110676 & 110677 (black)
6159 eliminated clock on console
10001 changed to fuel pump #110085. Use #110594 & 110589 fitting
and nut to retrofit to '81s
10001 late style muffler
10001 flat hood #109245
10305 added radio suppressant coil wire
10579 changed carpets, trim board below rear window
11673 changed coil cover
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
4 LaBelle Lane
McCleary, WA 98557
PH: 360-495-4640
FAX: 360-495-4680
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:49:01 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: DeLorean Services OFF LINE
TO ALL,
WE WILL BE OFF-LINE FOR TRANSMITTER MAINTENANCE FROM 1:00 AM JAN 25 UNTIL
THURSDAY 10:00 AM JAN. 28.
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@xxxxxxx
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:59:28 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Power Windows
Jimmy,
You do not have to remove the switch to clean it, only remove the switch
cover.
When you pull off the switch cover you will see the exposed contacts.
Spray
the contacts with plenty of cleaner, replace the cover and operate the
switch several times to help clean the switch contacts.
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@xxxxxxx
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:06:54 EST
From: ShadowDMC@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
In a message dated 1/25/99 12:57:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< 6159 eliminated clock on console >>
I have VIN 06882 and my car has a clock. BTW while on this subject what
raido
was originally on this car the Craig or the ASI?
Thanks,
Orlando Lopez
#06882
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:43:38 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Scott Mueller asked if any of us are planning to go to the DOA Expo in
St. Louis.
Although it is a little early for many of us to make the committment, as
of now my wife and I do plan to be there (pending resolution of a
schedule conflict with family business). We *will* be driving our
DeLorean this year. There will probably be a decent sized caravan of
DeLoreans from Ohio to Missouri.
- - Mike Substelny
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:59:50 -0700
From: raddad@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
I can see the number of responses to this thread. However, it may be
worthwhile to get clear records. My 81 had a console clock and it was
6530.
Dick Ryan
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:03:17 -0700
From: raddad@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
My primary DeLorean trip for 1999, along with several other D owners, will
be a two week excursion to Banff. However, that is in August. So,
perhaps
between August and October I can save enough to attend the Expo. Just not
sure yet.
Dick Ryan
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:53:06 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: P J Grady
Rob's labor rates are less expensive than most new car dealers... A
quality restoration requires many hours, and as we all know Delorean
parts are generally more expensive than your "Daily Driver", Yet still
less expensive than most "Exotics".
It is because of rob's reasonable rates that I sometimes will choose to
let him do work that I could do myself. It saves me aggravation, and I
trust Rob (and Pat) to always do the job right!
JAlbin@xxxxxxx wrote:
<SNIP>
> he designed himself. He is not cheap, but the work quality is excellent.
> Since I've gotten my car back, Robb has been free and generous with his
<SNIP>
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:23:45 EST
From: Jdsjlv@xxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
I was wondering if anyone out there knows the effects police radar and
laser
have on the DeLorean? I heard that radar waves become scrambled due to the
brushed surface of the DeLorean. Does the low profile of the car give it
the
stealth effect? At 5:30 this morning I was driving on the Merritt Parkway
and
was hit with Laser (or so my radar detector said). I was going 70 in a
55, but
wasn't pulled over. As I passed the cop, I noticed his head follow my D
as I
passed him, so I am sure he was curious. In Connecticut, especially at
5:30 in
the morning on the Merritt Parkway, state troopers will pull you over.
So I
wonder, are our cars immune or am I just lucky (I have yet to be pulled
over
and have been targeted with radar before)?
Joshua Schwartz
Trumbull, CT
'001292
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:02:06 -0600
From: "Bixby, Web" <wbixby@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: Attending Expo in St. Louis
I will also be going to the EXPO in St Louis.
While the attendance in Los Angles and Colorado EXPO's these past two
years
have been disappointing I would expect that the attendance in St Louis
will
be much better. Hopefully more like The Nashville EXPO in '96.
Who knows, maybe Mr. Espey will even show us where he saw his first
Delorean
(being from the St Louis area). How about it James?
Web Bixby
VIN 1049
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:13:48 -0500 (EST)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 Jdsjlv@xxxxxxx wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone out there knows the effects police radar and
> laser have on the DeLorean? I heard that radar waves become scrambled
> due to the brushed surface of the DeLorean. Does the low profile of the
> car give it the stealth effect? At 5:30 this morning I was driving on
> the Merritt Parkway
Although the car does have a lower than average radar cross section, it'll
still show up on radar. A number of things contribute to the low radar
profile:
Low physical height
Mostly plastic front fascia
Engine in rear
Fiberglass body structure
Angled body panels
However, there is still plenty of radar signature to detect you. In
particular, the headlights will reflect like crazy. You will be harder to
pick up than a Suburban, probably in the same class with any other low
profile sports car like an RX7, or a Corvette. The brushed surface of the
stainless will have no effect on the radar. Just about any metal will
show up on radar.
In particular, a car such as the DeLorean will be very hard to see with
radar if there is any amount of traffic. Just about anything has a larger
radar signature than you, and most radar guns will identify only the
largest target in rance. Some will detect both the largest and fastest,
so don't think you're safe unless you are totally obscured behind a giant
object like a semi trailer.
Laser is a little different. It works as a point source of light and will
reflect off anything. Most policemen will aim at the license plate or the
headlights, both of which are quite prominent on the DeLorean.
I think he probably just let you go. Maybe he was feeling nice or
couldn't get his engine started or something. Most likely he was just
looking at the DeLorean, not looking at you wondering why he couldn't find
you on his laser gun.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 17:41:01 -0000
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Attending Expo in St. Louis
On 1/26/99 12:02 AM, Web Bixby shared these fine thoughts...
>I will also be going to the EXPO in St Louis.
>
>While the attendance in Los Angles and Colorado EXPO's these past two years
>have been disappointing I would expect that the attendance in St Louis will
>be much better. Hopefully more like The Nashville EXPO in '96.
>
>Who knows, maybe Mr. Espey will even show us where he saw his first Delorean
>(being from the St Louis area). How about it James?
At this point I am planning on attending the St. Louis Expo. Once my
mother, who still lives in STL, found out I had no choice but to attend.
As to where I saw my first Delorean, I first saw it in a book, "Elite
Cars". My first in person sighting was at the local South St. Louis
dealer, Don Darr Pontiac/Mazda. It was torn down a few years ago to build
a hardware store.
James Espey
#10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:34:42 EST
From: KayoOng@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
Joshua,
NO. The DeLorean is not invisible or undetectable to laser radar.
You are lucky that the trooper didn't pull you over.
As far as the stainless steel on the DeLorean diffusing, deflecting or
diffracting the laser radar beams, I don't think so.
Let me share with you an event that took place just 2 months ago back in
November 1998 (starting the Holiday Season). Since you are in
Connecticut you
are not too far from NYC and the Westchester County. There are a lot of
troopers and radar speed traps. There is a little less presently, but
they
are still there.
I have the Valentine One radar detector and system. It is one of the best
that is currently available. My radar detector is always being triggered
by
radar from the troopers and the police in my travels.
Back in November I was going south on the NY State Thruway 87. I was
heading
back to NYC. My radar detector was picking up some strange signal that
was
triggering the unit. I was not familiar with this "new" noise it was
emitting. Was my unit going on the blink?
The audio and visual the Valentine One was generating was a strange one.
The
radar signal that it was picking up was hardly detectable because I was
on a
curve highway. I did slowed down to 55 to 60 MPH.
The second I was around the bend, THE VALENTINE ONE BLARED OUT WITH THE
STRANGEST SOUND AND THE PANEL LIT UP LIKE IT HAS NEVER DONE SO BEFORE, AND
THERE HE WAS. A TROOPER! I can see the trooper a 1/2 mile away taking a
read
at all of us until we passed. He was on the right side of the road with a
laser gun aimed all of us. He was picking out all the vehicles. One
vehicle
at a time starting from the left hand lane. Next, the center lane and
last
the right hand lane. I was on the right hand lane. We were all
traveling at
65-70 MPH a no-no for the speed limit is 55 MPH. He didn't stop any of
us.
Lucky us for all of us. Maybe we were in a tolerable limit???
Since that day, I still have encountered many radar traps. They were all
regular bands so there is plenty of warning before hand with the
Valentine One
unit. Even with the Valentine One, it is not immune to laser. It just
picks
it up at a farther distance.
I was told by law enforcement agents who uses laser type of equipment and
by
my friends who were caught by the laser system. If a Laser system does
detects you, it is very accurate and too late to do anything. Slowing
down
during the laser guns reading do help. You WILL get a violation for
speeding
period! The laser gun's picks up your speed at that moment, records its
with
a photograph of car, a section of your license plate blown up with the
speed
you are traveling at with the time and date of occurrence.
So there you have it.
Anyone else out with experience or knowledge they would like to share on
this
laser radar subject?
Kayo Ong
#05508
Lic. 9D NY
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 19:10:43 -0000
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: EVENT: British Car Days, Las Cruces, New Mexico
British Car Days 1999
Las Cruces, NM
April 23-25, 1999
Friday Meet & Greet, Saturday show on the Mesilla toen plaza, Sunday
rallye, brunch and awards ceremony.
For complete information and registration package, contact:
George Duckworth (505) 526-2318 email: gclyde1@xxxxxxx
Nancy Mackey (505) 524-8887 email: efmackey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- -----------------------------
I will be attending this event and encourage any other DML'ers in the
area to join me.
James Espey
#10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:58:05 EST
From: V102trbo@xxxxxxx
Subject: DML:alabama owners
is there any alabama delorean owners on the DML , if so email me
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:11:17 EST
From: Ad8302@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
Joe has been over this before....Some cars were sent to qaulity assurance
centers and takin apart and refitted...some parts did not find there way
back
to the 'original' car, however this list is VERY close to accurate.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 19:55:22 -0000
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: DeLorean at raffle - tickets available
The Pius XI High School "Touch of Class" auction and raffle informs me
that they are now ready to sell tickets. This is the raffle that was
mentioned last month which has a 1981 DeLorean as first prize. There are
also a total of (9) other cash prizes for the runners-up.
Tickets are $40 each or 3 for $100. Cash, check, VISA and MasterCard are
accepted. Contact Pius at (414) 290-8172 or by fax at (414) 290-7001.
They have a website at www.piusxi.org for more details.
James Espey
#10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:26:32 -0500 (EST)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection [long]
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 KayoOng@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Anyone else out with experience or knowledge they would like to share on
> this laser radar subject?
Well, since you asked.... <brain dump mode on>
Laser and radar work on the same principles, which is the doppler effect.
The police car is stationary and the nearby cars are moving. By measuring
the change in frequency of the radar/laser reflection as it comes back
they can tell how fast you are going. The only difference is that laser
uses an infrared beam which is just outside the visible spectrum (so as
not to cause glare if he accidentally shoots you in the eye) and is very
similar to the kind of laser used in a CD player. It is not very powerful
and doesn't need to be since the average laser gun has range equal or
greater than the range at which the policeman can aim it. Radar on the
other hand, uses regular old microwave radar.
Since the laser beam is emitted by a laser, it is extremely tightly
focused. At typical detection distances (1/4 mile or so) the beam has
spread out only to a few feet wide. On a small car like the DeLorean you
can not worry about this, but on a large vehicle like a Suburban, Ram,
Bronco, etc. you will frequently need to use two laser detectors to ensure
you detect a laser beam.
Because of this narrowness, it is difficult to detect a laser beam until
it hits you. Sometimes, you will pick up a reflection, or a laser beam
aimed at a car in front of you will "spread" into your detection zone. One
disadvantage to laser for the policeman is that they take some effort
aiming compared to a radar gun. He must line up his crosshairs right on
your license plate, headlight, reflector, etc. This also requires a laser
gun to be very precisely calibrated (if you ever go to court over this, be
sure to make them haul out the calibration records). And, it means that
you will never encounter a policeman sitting there eating a donut and
trolling for speeders. He has to use the laser gun the way he's supposed
to use a radar gun - look for a speeder, then use the laser to confirm the
speed.
Radar guns on the other hand will broadcast their energy all over the
place. You can hear them from a mile away. "Instant On" radar is a
relatively recent technology that only activates for a few seconds, just
long enough to get a reading. Obviously, you can't hear these coming like
the continuous wave, but like laser it requires the policeman to pay more
attention, and if he uses it at all, you'll pick it up at the same range
as a CW radar gun. Deadly on long, mostly empty highways.
Countermeasures: The only real, legal, countermeasure is to not speed.
There are some devices which claim to "jam" radar detectors. Rocky
Mountain Radar's "phazer" is probably the most common. Do not waste your
money, these do not work. The only way to "jam" a radar gun is with an
active radar jammer. These are easy to build but illegal by FCC
regulations and most state laws. Laser jammers are not illegal per se
(FCC does not regulate this portion of the spectrum) however, most places
have laws against "interfering with a policeman in the course of his duty"
or some such and use of a jammer could fall under these laws. Other
devices, like the 'stealth bra', are similarly useless. They may reduce
your detection range by a small amount, but not worth the money. If they
really worked, the Air Force would just cover the stealth bomber with this
stuff and not have to worry about all the exotic technology.
Unfortunately, laser is much harder to jam. Again, this is because it is
a very narrow beam. In order to effectively jam a laser at long range,
you would have to point a similar laser beam right at the policeman, or
pump out an excessive amount of power. Interestingly, unlike radar, it is
easier to jam a laser at close range than at long range.
Laser is not on "judicial notice" in many areas. That means that if you
fight it in court, you get to challenge the technology too. They will
have to bring in expert witnesses, etc. to prove the ticket. And, laser
is not in very widespread use - maybe 10% of speed detection systems are
laser, and they are confined to some states.
There are some devices that claim to protect you from laser. There are
some which are fairly effective. Note that none of these will make you
invisible or even appreciably reduce detection range, but they will make
the policeman retarget his laser, giving you a chance to slow down.
License plate covers are the easiest. However, they may be illegal in your
area. Some license plates are more reflective than others, and
low-reflectivity ones will cut your detection range by a great deal. The
ancient blue and yellow California plates, as well as the "green
mountain"
Colorado plates are quite nonreflective. Of course, some states don't
require front plates. :} Headlight covers are another way to cut down
laser emissions and are generally legal.
Other things: Some laser and radar guns will fail to lock on to you if
you are accelerating or decelerating sharply. Obviously, decelerating is
the wiser choice, unless you want 'reckless driving' to go along with your
speeding ticket. Not all of them have this shortcoming. If a policeman
writes you a ticket and you don't think you deserve it, be sure to ask to
see the radar gun. If you ask, he has to show it to you, and if he can't
produce it (because he already cleared the reading, or because it is a
bogus ticket) you can probably win in court. Also carry a camera, and a
tape recorder. You'll need these for the aforementioned defense. Be sure
you ask the policeman before you use either of them, just out of courtesy,
also it is illegal in some states to tape a conversation without knowledge
of both parties. Other radar guns are equipped with "radar detector
detectors." Mostly these are found in places where radar detectors are
illegal. Yes, these do work and they can detect your radar detector,
sometimes even if it's off, so if you're traveling through one of those
states, put it in the trunk. I don't know of any states where possession
of a detector is illegal, only use is illegal, and as far as I know that's
only in DC and Virginia. Laser and radar guns also will only work if you
are heading directly toward them. And, the farther away from the road a
policeman is, the lower the reading on his gun.
Laser and radar technology could fill a whole bookshelf. I think I'm done
for now. :}
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End of dmcnews-digest V3 #473
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