[DMCForum] Re: Re The Electric Car Battery Controversy

["therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas@xxxxxxxxx>]

That's pretty interesting stuff. I've been a large skeptic of 
electric cars in the past, as many have seen online. My biggest 
complaint about them being slow charge time, and limmited range. But 
after moving to another city, I've honestly had a change of heart, 
since I've seen how much more practical they are. For sole commuting 
purposes, I honestly wouldn't mind to have an electric car. Keep it 
charged at home, and use it to drive to work, and run a few errands 
here and there. If I did have to take a long trip, then I'd switch 
over to an internal combustion vehicle, or someother method of 
transportation.

I do believe that in the past, electric cars were probably not as 
feasable as they are today, but I do now believe that they would 
have worked. I have no doubt that Oil companies are willing to 
supress other technologies, and I believe that now, because there 
are no other lines of business that they could enter into. Bio-fuels 
would have been dominated by the agricultural industry, electric 
cars would have allowed coal & nuclear industries to dominate the 
motor fuel industry. And all the while, it's would have been the 
petroleum industry that would have been left out in the cold. Sure, 
we still would have needed them for plastics (until soy-based 
plastics have come along now), and fertilizer. But still, that may 
not have afforded them the record profits that they've seen in the 
past few years.

Another item to this has been OPEC's stance on alternative fuels. 
There were quite a few articles in the news recently about OPEC's 
growning concern with alternative energy solutions, and how they 
could counter them. E-85 is nice, because it still relies on 
petroleum to remain the dominating component of the fuel. What OPEC 
has been worried about, are alternative energy solutions with the 
sole purpose to replacing petroleum derrived fuels entirely. Ethenal 
is poised to take over gasoline, organic Biodiesel is ready to jump 
on top mineral-based petroleum diesel, and Methane is a damn good 
canidate to replace liquid propane.

The rest of the world has been paying high prices for petroleum for 
years. We in the states honestly haven't cared, because we've had 
cheap fuel ourselves, and have been satisfied with that. But now, 
we're really feeling the impact, and are reacting accordingly. There 
are lots of kits now available that allow people to make their own 
fuel at home. From small stills to distil Ethanol, to mixing hoppers 
that can filter and process cooking oil into motor fuel-grade 
diesel. OPEC, and big oil is scarred for a reason. And that's 
because they know that these types of technologies could easily 
replace them at any time, once consumers speak with their money. If 
they weren't, OPEC would be devoting meetings and summits to discuss 
them.

Are the Big 3 auti manufacturers in on this with the oil companies? 
I think that they were. I beleieve that GM & Ford probably made 
themselves a nasty little deal with the devil when it came to big 
oil, and helping supress these other technologies, just like how 
they screwed up with theier Union & Health Care contracts. In a time 
with the carefree gas prices of the 90's, who would have cared. 
There's no way that they could have predicted not only the price of 
oil increasing, but the impact of customer sentiment that's leading 
to forcing SUVs to meet the efficiency standards of regular cars. 
Honda decided to play the enviornmental/fuel economy card way back 
in the day. And, it's paying off for them. Just like it is for other 
foreign car makers. GM is now having to subsidize consumer fuel 
costs for their own vehicles to try and sell them, and Ford is 
getting screamed at durring stockholder meetings that their cars are 
not fuel efficient, and therefore competetive in the market place.

It sucks for the car makers, because they're the one's who are 
really in control. Big oil should actually be Detroit's bitch. Not 
the other way around. GM, Ford, and Chrysler should have been in 
control to say, "Listen, we don't need your dumb ass. We're gonna 
sell profitable SUVs, but, consumers are concerned about fuel 
economy. So, if you don't get off your asses, and be just a tad less 
greedy, we're gonna dump petroleum fuel for our cars, and switch our 
powerplants to run off of alternative fuel sources, and leave you 
out in the cold. Now, are you gonna play along so you can remain 
profitable? Or do we have to enlist an add campaign against you, to 
shake consumer confidence in your product?"

That's the way it should have been. GM should have bullied big oil 
like they were a red-headed stepchild parts supplier. But no, they 
acted codependant, like they couldn't sell cars without them. But 
then again, hey, let's face it. The old men who were soon to reitre 
didn't give a rats-ass about either the consumers, nor the next 
generation of managers who were going to inherit their mess, and 
failed wisdom. "Golden Parachutes for all! Screw the consumers and 
the employees!"

OPEC wants to seriously lower the price of crude oil. But gambling-
addict Day Traders, and greedy mineral rights holders around the 
world keep thwarting their plans. Which, I'm somewhat sad to say, is 
a good thing. Especially with crazy-ass Hugo Chavez screaming to 
keep the price of oil high. I serious don't like having to place the 
burdon of high energy costs only the Middle class families that I 
too will be starting soon. But if we can kick this damn habit, well, 
it'll all be worth it in the end. Lower priced fuels, and a cleaner 
enviornment, and we'll cease to fund people who wish to poise 
themselves as our enemies. We'll have to see how this all works out.

-Robert



--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, doctorDHD@... wrote:
>
>      
> Here are just some little blurbs for those who are  skeptical 
about the 
> Oillies suppressing the technology they bought and  won't let 
anyone use to build 
> an electric car.  If anyone is really  interested I suggest 
signing onto the 
> Yahoo Group,  electric_vehicles_for_sale
>  
>  
> _Top Stories_ 
> (http://visforvoltage.com/main/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=index&catid=2) : _NiMH Patent Suit 
Settled_ 
> (http://visforvoltage.com/main/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=10&mode=thread&order=0&tho
> ld=0) 
> Posted by: KenTrough on Wednesday, July 14, 2004  - 03:31 AM
>  
> (http://visforvoltage.com/main/modules.php?
op=modload&name=News&file=index&catid=&topic=6) Detroit, MI, Jul. 8 
(UPI) -- A federal court  in Detroit has 
> awarded a $30 million settlement in a patent infringement  suit 
regarding 
> electric-gasoline hybrid car batteries. Under the  complicated 
deal, Energy 
> Conversion and its subsidiary, Ovonic Battery  Co., will receive a 
$10 million fee 
> from Matsushita Electric Industrial  Co., Panasonic Energy Co. and 
Toyota Motor 
> Corp., the Detroit Free Press  said Thursday.
> 
> In addition, Cobasys, a company co-owned by Energy  Conversion and 
> ChevronTexaco, will receive $20 million, said documents  filed 
Wednesday with the SEC.
> 
> Cobasys then pays Ovonic and  ChevronTexaco $8 million each as 
partial 
> reimbursement of legal  expenses.Cobasys and Panasonic agreed to 
collaborate on the 
> batteries in  the future.
> 
> The settlement focused on patents on the nickel metal  hydride 
batteries and 
> their use in the Toyota Prius. Matsushita and  Panasonic supply 
the 
> high-powered, rechargeable batteries to Toyota. In  its suit, 
Ovonic claimed 
> Matsushita's hybrid electric-vehicle batteries,  battery 
components and battery systems 
> infringed on Ovonic  patents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) The NiMH batteries were invented by Stan  Ovshinsky using a lot 
of grant 
> money
> from the US government and the big three  US automakers.  His 
company Ovonics
> filed for and received numerous  patents on the technology.  
Later, he formed 
> a
> parent company called  Energy Conversion Devices (ECD) which does 
R&D in solar
> cells among other  things.  Stan was always running out of money, 
so he kept 
> ECD
> but sold  Ovonics to GM who used the batteries in the EV1 and 
Chevy S-10 EV
> pickup  truck.
> 
> After GM made the number of EVs they agreed to (per a back room  
deal with 
> CARB
> called the MOA) they no longer had a need for Ovonics.  I  suspect 
that GM and
> other automakers are influenced in large measure by the  Oil 
companies who 
> prefer
> that such disruptive battery technology be kept away  from the car 
buying 
> public.
> Therefore it was not much of a surprise that GM  sold Ovonics to 
Texaco which 
> was
> later acquired by Chevron.
> 
> After the  Chevron acquisition, Ovonics was renamed to Cobasys and 
you can 
> still
> read  about the batteries at www.cobasys.com.  However, that's 
about all you  
> can
> do.  You can't buy them.  In order to make your own like  
Panasonic did, you 
> need
> to license the technology and pay royalties on each  battery 
produced.
> 
> Several years ago, Ovonics lawyers decided that  Panasonic had not 
paid enough
> royalties.  Panasonic felt that they had  made improvements to the 
technology
> which somehow made additional royalty  payments unnecessary.  The 
Ovonics 
> lawyers
> filed a lawsuit against  Panasonic and the case dragged on for a 
very long 
> time.
> 
> Ultimately I  believe they settled out of court and the terms were 
not made
> public.   However I believe that one of the terms was that 
Panasonic was
> forbidden from  making large format batteries like the EV-95 for a 
period of 
> 10
> years.   Fearing the same outcome, other NiMH battery producers 
have not 
> offered
> any  battery with a capacity over 20 AH and most have not gone 
beyond 10  AH.
> 
> 
> D² & 6530 
> "Just Say NO, to the COUCH POTATO!"®
> 
> To see how go to _www.tvpedaler.com_ (http://www.tvpedaler.com/)   
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







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