[DMCForum] Churches (was Re: All people of faith are dumb, and so am I apparently.).

["therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas@xxxxxxx>]

It's very interesting to see this whole argument about Churches, and
the alterier motives of charitable organizations. What I gotta say I
find most interesting here is the argument itself. I don't really see
the exchange of ideals here being as the primary focus of the debate,
but rather, the point of everyone to one-up the previous statement.
Few, if any compromises here

I've gotta say that while I disagree with organized religion, I do
fell that a church plays a very nessisarry role to the community of
people which it serves. When I was a kid, I once heard this story in
school (public school mind you). The purpose of us learning this
wasn't to entertain, but rather to spark abstract thinking. It's
called "The Soup Stone". And while there are many variations, and it's
origin is kinda cloudy, it's a great story none the less, because it
sums up so much about church.

"One day, a soldier walking down the road became hungry. He stopped to
knock on the door of a cottage, to enquire if the family inside had
any food that they could spare. They were hospitable, and invited the
soldier in. But alas, they had no food to really offer him, as they
were so poor. The soldier commented that that wasn't a problem,
because he had a soup stone. As he explained to the family, all you
had to do was drop the stone into a boiling pot of water, and it would
make soup all by itself. So while a bit sceptical, began to boil a pot
of water, and placed the stone into the pot.

"As the water boiled, nothing seemed to happen. The soldier commented
that he could however taste the soup. But for the family who couldn't,
he reccomended adding in a bit of spices. They added some, but the
flavor did not change much from that of plain water. So he asked if
they had any vegetables. They did, and pulled some fresh carrots out
off the garden, and added them into the pot. The same with other
vegetables, mushrooms, and a hare borrowed from the nieghbor, to add
meat and stock into the pot.

"Soon the soup was done. Everyone ate, and commented that it tasted
quite good. They all attributed this to the wonderful Soup Stone that
the soldier had, which did all the work of making the meal. Once he
was done, the soldier thanked the family, and told them that because
they were so kind to him by letting him into their house, that they
could keep the soup stone. They were quite greatful to recieve such
and gift, and thanked him profusely. Soon after, the soldier left, and
continued his journey down the road. Soon after, he found another
stone by a stream. He washed it off in the water, and placed it into
his sack, while looking for another cottage once he became hungry once
again."

That is a wonderful story, because it sums up so much. There is
nothing wrong with a church, or even those who attend for that matter.
There is a wonderful social aspect to it all, where people can get
together, chat, offer advice and in many cases inspire one another.
And all within a group of like-minded individuals. Many people need
that aspect in their lives, because it's nice to know that you're not
always alone. And after you understand the meaning behind the story,
"The Soup Stone", then you'll really get the true meaning behind the
old phrase, "God helps those who help themselves."


As I've said, a Church can be quite beneficial to the community of
people which it serves. And of course we also know that it can be
quite disruptive, if not destructive in some cases. The biggest
problem here that everyone wants to agrue but can't is because you're
all asking the wrong question. We shouldn't be questioning "Is Church
a good thing, because of the bad things that can happen?" What we
should be asking is, "Why does a Church/fellowship have the ability to
do such wrong, when it's intent is supposed to be such a positive one
for the purpose of good?"

The answer? It's leadership.

If we think Church is bad because of past negative instances, then we
must obviously think that our DeLoreans are all bad, because they too
have such potential to do bad. Crash into other cars, run over
pedestrians, etc. This generalization isn't that far off when you
think about it. The problems as to why Churches have such a negative
potential is because of the leadership.

What makes someone a good leader? It's their desire and ability to
lead others twards a common goal, WITH RESPECT TO OTHER INDIVIDUALS.
And when it comes to a religious organization, you want a person who
has a desire to do good. The problem here of course is the variable of
what does an individual consider to be "good"? And then you have to
consider the second hurdle here. And that is one's ability to motivate
and lead others.

Now what I mean by the ability to lead and direct others isn't
nessisarrily all about seeing the fruition of one's desires. No. When
if comes to the second aspect of leadership, management of people,
alot of people are attracted because of the ability to abuse others.
It's a great powertrip, and plays in quite well for someone who's weak
with greed. The goal of managing people is to extract as much
productivity out of them as you can, with consideration to long-term
efficiency as well. However, alot of people want to be placed into a
position of power, to that they have the ability to exert that power
over others. Kinda like police officers. Sure lots of people want to
become cops because they want to do the right thing in life. However,
there are quite a few others who wish to become others so that they
can carry a gun, and feel that sense of power.

All I'm trying to say here is for everyone to take a step back, and in
the cases of arguments such as this one, just take a step back,
analyze the argument itself, and see just what it is that you're
really arguing. Are you trying to exchange ideas? Or just ensure that
you're being heard, rather than understood?

-Robert

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