RE: [DMCForum] Prototypes, legend and lore
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RE: [DMCForum] Prototypes, legend and lore
- From: "Farrar Russell Carroll Hudkins" <fhudkins@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:42:21 -0500
You can't believe this guy anyway. He thinks that 648 - 520 = 40. ;]
Farrar
"Hooray for new math, ne-e-ew math ..." - Tom Lehrer
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Valuch [mailto:dmcvin6683@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Fri 12/19/2003 3:26 PM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Prototypes, legend and lore
You are just fuckin stupid to truly believe you have a
prototype and a
liar to sell your shit for more money, take your POS Bricklin
and go
elsewhere. Hey is your Bricklin a prototype too?
Mark
6683 PROTOTYPE
now my car is worth more money, i declare from this day on its
a
prototype.
Here read this from James Espey's last post....
I've extensively researched the history of prototypes and know
a fair
amount about them as well as the pre-production cars. Here
goes...the
first prototype with the Citroen 4 cylinder engine is in a
private
collection in Nevada. It is the subject of a feature article
in an
upcoming issue of "deloreans". The owner is proud of the car,
but
very protective. I don't expect we will see the car publicly
displayed in the near future. But I'm working on him. :-)
The second prototype was sent off to Lotus for "evaluation".
This car
never returned to the states and I went to Lotus last year (at
their
invitation on another matter) and spoke to several people
about it.
Everyone was in agreement that it was destroyed in the late
1990's.
Photos of that era show it seemingly abandoned and in VERY
poor
condition.
Dozens of prototypes were built at built at Lotus (cars with
fiberglass bodies) and destroyed or disassembled according to
sources
at Lotus. I believe all the pre-production cars were built at
Dunmurry (in the late months of 1980 as production loomed).
They were
numbered, a prefixed with a "D". One would imagine they
started
at "D01", but no documentation has surfaced to prove that.
There is
documentation (dated 12/31/81) of the existence of cars
numbered D19,
D20, D21, and D28. These are referred to on different
documents
as "pilot builds" or "engineering mules". Two or three of
these pre-
production cars have survived - the one on the DMC-News web
site
which I believe is D28 (current whereabouts unknown) and
Sascha
Skucek's car (sorry if I spelled your name wrong). I think we
determined that Sascha's car is D20. Based on the dates of
that
document, I am inclined to think that only those four
pre-production
cars came to the states, the rest having stayed in Dunmurry.
Between late Jan 1981 and April 1981, several hundred (the
actual
number is unknown at this time) of what's come to be called
the "black cars" were built. Exactly what became of these cars
is
unknown as well.
Regular production started at VIN #500, though the first 60
were not
intended for retail sale, and a document exists saying that
there was
to be no warranty coverage on those cars. SSI says production
started
in April, but several cars exist with build dates of March.
The earliest documented retail sale VIN is 635, the first
known
public sale was June 17, 1981 in Beverly Hills, CA (VIN 910).
I doubt
any cars were sold retail prior to that date, as cars didn't
arrive
in the US until early June of 1981. We all know there are
lower VIN's
in private hands now, though most (if not all) can be
established as
having previously been company cars originally, and were only
sold
later as company finances deteriorated and they were forced to
sell
those cars. Those cars were sold through a company called
"Chestnut
Fleet Leasing" and these cars are sometimes referred to as
the "Chestnut Fleet" cars.
James Espey
DMC (Texas)
On Friday, December 19, 2003, at 10:26 AM, fivetwofive wrote:
> Now to add my 2 cents worth,here's my reply,
> The factory begain producing cars for DEALER shipment in
June of
> 1981,prior to that,there was a series of cars Vin # 000520
thru
> 000648 that were HAND ASSEMBLED and shipped to the USA.There
were
> approximately 40 in number.These autos were for the factory
> executives,trade shows EPA and DOT.To the Best of my
knowledge only a
> few(appox a dozen or so) of these cars survived.The balance
were
> crashed tested,destroyed
> or disassembled for parts.They were NEVER destined to be
sold to the
> general public My car has a vin tag showing a date of March
1981.As
> ALL cars HAVE to have VIN#'s this was probably done in March
prior to
> shipping to the States.There are possibly several
pre-prod.prototype
> cars in the US.or worldwide,BUT in the 22yeras I have been
into
> Deloreans,I have only information on maybe a total of 10-12(
possibly
> a few more that I am not aware of). WORLDWIDE with vin's
below vin#
> 648,as the FIRST car that was sold to the General public was
Vin #
> 000649.The #1 and #2 prototypes were sold in the fall of
1984 AT
> auction in California.Neither of the autos was in drivable
> condition,being damaged and with parts missing.The #1
ptototype
> purchased by Bill Yaccobozzi,sold for $37K.The #2
prototype,purchased
> by Don Williams,sold for $21K.
> As for my car Vin#000570,it was assigned as a "training
car"(after
> BEING HAND assembled) and then was assigned to a K.Rzemek,as
it was
> never intended/nor was it EVER sent to a DMC car
> delearship,again,this car(00570)was NEVER intended to be
"sold"
> except for the fact of the DMC's need for cash/
collaspe,saved it
> from it's fate of doom.Again in my 22years of keeping a
interest in
> Deloreans,I have ONLY come across about a dozen
cars(worldwide)
> Between vins 520-648. If they were "regular production
cars",then
> just answer this Question--Where are all these(128 cars)
missing cars-
> -- You would think since they were the first "dealer sold
cars" as
> some people would think,then they should be easy to
find.(remember
> the first Dealer sold cars WERE HOT HOT HOT,and were going
for in
> excess of $32K) As I went to my nearest Delorean
Delearship,back
> then,and SAW the STICKER myself,and was SHOCKED at the time
to SEE
> $32K for a window sticker price,as a NEW corvette at the
Time FULLY
> LOADED was going for $16-17K.If indeed as some people say
that Vin
> 500 up were "production cars" at $32K for these "first cars"
then
> they would have been treated like "gold" and NOT be Forever
"missing"
> which again leads to only one direction,disassembly/or
destroyed.
> Also the
> true "first" Delorean prototype Delorean was not EVEN a
Delorean,it
> was a FIAT X/19 (a pic/stoty is shown of it in SSI)So that
the two
> orignal
> prototypes are cars 2 and 3(Besides the X/19 P.T. 2 and 3
were the
> ONLY AMERICAN built Deloreans,all others were built
overseas) was on
> the list.
> Also to back up what I am
> saying I have Documents to prove/backup my words.One more
thing I am
> the second owner of 00570 the first owner got it from a
company that
> was a liquidator of some kind, for DMC excess
inventory(ie:items that
> COULD NOT be sold thru regular channels)(this is what the
first owner
> told me,as I located him in N.J.) They(DMC) needed cash,but
could not
> sell the cars(vins 520-648) thru normal Dealer
channels/networks,for
> liability reasons,as these cars again were NEVER intended to
be sent
> to/thru the new car dealerships
> Ferrai TODAY does the same thing with their new production
Prototype
> Ferraris(except they will never release or sell those
cars(or any
> parts off those cars) in any manner,no matter how much money
you
> throw at them)if you go to the Ferrari factory,somewhere in
the
> corner of the factory grounds,you will FIND MILLIONS and
Millions of
> Dollars worth of Ferrais,crushed or stacked 3 or 4 high one
on top of
> each other,it just would make you sick to see
testerossas,GTO's and
> F-50's,and some of their "lesser cars" stacked one on top of
the
> other.(I HAVE PICS somewhere,of these stacked Ferraris)And a
start-up
> Company like DMC was following the same path(or
> at least disassembling,these early cars)but like any company
that
> needed/strapped for cash,you sell off what ever you can,that
is where
> my car and others like mine had their chance,to escape their
fate.If
> I am wrong please correct my facts.
>
> Claude
> 00570
>
> P.S.Some of my facts were gleened from DMC factory
Documents, and DW
> and previous owners,and Consolidated Leasing,and California
Tech
> Center.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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