RE: [DML] STARTING PROBLEM

Soak it in BG 44K. Many years ago, my ignition mod. died, with my "D" sitting for ~a year. The fuel system crashed, & the shop that worked on it replaced everything BUT the fuel distributor. That was saved by soaking it in BG 44K. Good stuff, Maynard! Drive Stainless Robert VIN 6924

To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: rmclemns@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 22:20:34 +0000
Subject: RE: [DML] STARTING PROBLEM

First, let me thank all that have responded with helpful hints. I have been gone for a few days so no progress, till today

I decided today to pull the fuel distributor and check the plunger action. As soon as I got it off I noticed the first problem----no O-ring between it and the mixture control. Put it on the bench and tried to move the plunger----no movement either up or down, frozen in position.

So here’s my question----can I soak it in PB Blaster and see it that frees it up. If not, can I disassemble the part that holds the plunger in place?? It looks like it is held in place with a very thin nut and washer. I don’t want to proceed until I hear from the group.

Thanks again for all your great help.

Mike TPS 1630

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From: jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: ‎November‎ ‎5‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎33‎ ‎AM
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RE: Re: [DML] STARTING PROBLEMS

Another cause for over-rich running can be the plunger in the fuel unit is stuck. If you feel no resistance on the air sensor while the motor is running then that is a distinct possibility. As for a running Cold Start Valve, just pull the plug off. The valve is not known to go bad but you could have a problem with the wiring or the TT switch. Or maybe someone did the plug swap and did not put the plugs back. What color plug is on the CSV?
David Teitelbaum

---In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <hmcelraft@...> wrote:

I have been reviewing your troubles and I am responding at this point because I believe this may be where the real problem may have shown itself. The spark basics are probably ok - it is running. The black smoke is too much fuel - that is the big issue to solve first I believe.

First, it sounds to me (based on the symptoms). like the cold -start valve is always "on" . The "blue connector is on the cold-start valve ?- not the black connector that belongs on the CPR. This is a common switch to get a "choke effect" sometimes if needed but, fuel will really dump into the engine if the cold-start valve remains open. If you have the correct connections and your not sure if the cold-start valve is working correctly - take it off and stick it in a can and plug the cold-start hole. While it is in the can you can see if it works correctly. There is a thermo-time switch that controls that valve - they rarely go bad but do get broken on the top. Something to check. The thermo-time switch is suppose to turn off the cold start valve after a short time as it heats up from the electric draw or turns off because the engine warms up. Failure is usually an open circuit but, if it fails closed, the cold-start valve can be always on.

Second - if you have messed with the fuel adjustment - are you sure it is back in the same spot where the engine was at least running? if it was running, that adjusting screw is the last thing to adjust. I am assuming it was running fine when it was "stored". And yes the hole should be closed - there is a special plug you can order from DMCH for that.

A non-functioning FV usually results in too little fuel. The FV is probably not the problem - at least the old one - the one you put in may be but, those too rarely go bad. Power is provided by the fuel pump control relay.

You may have a bad fuel distributor - at least the plunger rod and pressure control parts that provide resistance for the plunger to regulate the fuel flow to the injectors. When the fuel system is pressurized that plunger and the air valve disc you see should have resistance. When it is pushed down manually while the engine is running will usually kill the engine because it "floods " it. It should move only slightly when you rev the engine with the throttle valve. The CPR does play a role in this but basically when the engine is cold. If it is not leaking and the screen is clean it is probably working ok.

I could go into the spark stuff but I doubt that spark is your problem.

Bottom line ---- too much fuel. Start looking for things that can cause that - then be sure that all of the air leaks are closed.

Harold McElraft - 3354, et.al.

---In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Martin, I must have confused you. I'm keeping the car at 2000 rpm because if it drops below 1500, it will quit. Then the only way I can start it is pull the plugs and clean all the black soot off them and then let it set for a couple hours. And no, I have not touched the mixture screw, although the cover is missing.

Latest update: I just came up from the garage. I had started the car, kept it running at 2000 rpm until I started to get a temperature reading on my dash. The longer it ran, the higher I had to keep the rpm so it wouldn't quit. After about 15 minutes, I was up to 3000 rpm to keep it running. The whole time, it was missing and blowing black smoke out the tailpipes. I shut it down, let it sit for a few minutes and tried a restart. No start or even a hint of starting. Now I have an oil leak to go along with the starting problems, but that can wait until figure out the rich mixture problem.

Mike

From: Martin Gutkowski <martin@...>
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] STARTING PROBLEMS

And you haven't touched the mixture screw since she last ran? I'll assume yes.

The 2000rpm idle is probably the idlespeed thermistor or more likely connections to it. If the plug on the idle module shows open circuit across pins 9 and 11, you have your culprit for the high idle.

Alternatively the idle ECU could itself be bad. Can you borrow one for a quick swap test?

The high mixture could well be that the injectors are now flowing better than they ever did. But I'd say sort that idle out then work on the fuelling.

Martin

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From: mike clemens <rmclemns@...>

Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:44:38 -0700 (PDT)

To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

ReplyTo: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [DML] STARTING PROBLEMS

Martin, If you are refering to plunger attached to the air intake flapper, then yes. It moves freely. As a matter of fact, air intake was fully open at 2000 rpm.

Mike

From: Martin Gutkowski <martin@...>
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] STARTING PROBLEMS

Is the plunger in the metering head moving freely? Best Wishes, Martin

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From: mike clemens <rmclemns@...>

Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:04:42 -0700 (PDT)

To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

ReplyTo: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [DML] STARTING PROBLEMS

Okay, got one that has me stumped. First, some history.

This car has not run in 8+ years. It was stored inside with ethanol gas in the tank--first big mistake. I pulled the fuel pump, drained the tank, and cleaned the entire inside. I installed a new fuel pump with the John Harvey pickup and return (no more rubber hoses to deterioate). Next I flushed the entire system from the fuel pump to the mixture control using 93 octane gas. I pulled the plugs, cleaned and tested 4.0. I pulled the fuel injectors, cleaned and tested. Good 35 degree spray pattern on all six. I purchased a new battery and was ready to big test.

After several trys, engine caught and ran at ran rough at 2000 rpm. It wouldn't idle and I shut it down after about 10 seconds to check for any leaks. All checked out dry so I tried to start again. Would not start, although it was always right at the verge of starting. I pulled the plugs and injectors and recleaned them. Put it all back together and tried again. Started again, but I had to keep the rpm above 2000 or it would try to die. Had tons of white smoke coming out the exhaust, but that cleared after about 15 seconds. After about 15 more seconds, I shut it down again to check things. Again everything looked good, so another try at restart. No matter what I did could I get it to start and every try produced a strong fuel smell at the exhaust pipes, so I slept on it last night.

This morning, I tried again. After cranking for about 5 seconds, it started but wouldn't run at less that 2000 rpm and had black smoke coming out the exhaust. Let it run for about 10 minutes this time to warm everything up. Car appeared to be missing the whole time. Started pulling plug wires to see if I could isolate misfiring cylinder(s). Pulled #3 first (firing), then #2 (firing), and then #1 (firing) but didn't get it back on quick enough and engine stalled. Would not restart. Pulled all six plugs and all six covered with black soot, indicating very over rich condition.

I know this has been long, but my question is "where do I go from here"? The car won't idle, it appears to be running super rich, and it won't start a second time after running for any period of time.

Mike TPS 1630