RE: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans

["DarkStar Media" <darkstarmedia@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Bill,

I believe a properly tuned carb won't kill the cat right away but it can
shorten the life of the cat... I'd personally like to see the data either
way.

But...

How would you ever know if the cats stop working? The carburated cars will
not pass smog anyway.  
I will also mention that the swap you do violates epa laws (ie it is not
legall).  I imagine that the cars you do this on are  in areas that do not
have emissions testing.... It's still not legal. Unless you have put your
conversion through CARB OE certification... 

Do you inform these people that there could be fines exceeding $10k?  

Do you realize the position you put your self in if you are reported to the
epa and they bother to investigate?

Richard


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
content22207
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:30 AM
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans

  

Farrar Hudkins -- the one who started the carburetion craze -- has been
running his carb with catalytic converters (he has two of them) since 2008.
John Marconi has been running his carb with a stock converter since 2009.
Bob Babcock has been running his carb with a stock converter since 2010. I
believe Garen Martens and Virgil Poole both have stock converters, but I
haven't seen their cars in person to verify that.

No, I am not worried.

You certainly are worried. Since both Farrar and John read the DML, why
don't you send them each an eMail message to that effect? They have been
running carb conversions the longest (#1 2008 and #2 2009), so your warning
is long overdue.

If I send send them an eMail, it will read something like "glad your carb is
still working well all these years later, especially in conjunction with
your exhaust system," which just won't have the same effect.

Bill Robertson
#5939

--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> , "Martin
Gutkowski" <martin@...> wrote:
>
> I'm concerned for the person who decides to fit one of your conversions
and kills their working catalyst with potentially dangerous results! 
> 
> Why aren't you? 
> 
> Because "you haven't seen a problem yet"? 
> 
> That is a poor poor position to take.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerryR
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "content22207" <brobertson@...>
> Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:03:03
> To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> 
> Until someone reports a problem, I am going to continue to make what I
have been making as I have been making them. 
> 
> I certainly am not going to stop making carb conversions simply because
you now claim, four years later, that they will not work.
> 
> Real world experience has you trumped on this one. 
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> >
> > So are you going to stop promoting your carb conversion as suitable for
cat-equipped engines, or will you continue with the "celestial teapot"
approach? 
> > 
> > The issue of 3 way catalysts requiring a stochiometric mixture is FACT.
Your "empirical" data is flawed.
> > 
> > I also suggest you look up the definition of the word "theory"
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > Sent from my BlackBerryR
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:32:45
> > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > 
> > I know this frustrates you, but I simply can not respond to a problem
that hasn't been reported. Until an owner reports a problem, there is
nothing for me to respond to.
> > 
> > You are reporting a problem, but you do not have one of my conversions.
The problem you report exists only in your head (insofar as it is directly
connected to my conversions -- your problem is theoretical, not empirical).
> > 
> > I promise: as soon as an owner reports a problem, I will let you know.
Until then both of us are going to have to patiently wait.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > How about hooking up a new catalyst to one of your carb equipped
engines and see if you GET a problem... I'd have thought you'd love to be
able to promote your setup to all owners!
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > Sent from my BlackBerryR
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:36:59
> > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > > 
> > > As soon as an owner reports a problem, I will let you know.
> > > 
> > > Bill Robertson
> > > #5939
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill, 3 way catalysts can't survive being connected to an engine
that isn't fuelling at stochiometry for the majority of time. This isn't
theory, it's well understood cast iron chemical fact!
> > > > 
> > > > Your tiny sample of owners include many with fuel delivery problems
to begin with, right? I'd put money on their cats being knackered before you
went anywhere near the car. I've seen what happens when a non-lambda k-jet
system is hooked up to a working stock catalyst so I'm talking from
experience as well as education.
> > > > 
> > > > Your "nah nah nah I can't hear you" routine on this subject just
goes to show how limited your knowledge really is as well as your
stubbornness that Marc alluded to before..
> > > > 
> > > > Martin
> > > > 
> > > > Sent from my BlackBerryR
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:00:16
> > > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > > > >
> > > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > > > 
> > > > Not a single owner with a stock exhaust system has reported any
problems with the OEM converter, so my conversions appear to be compatible
with 3 way catalyst. You can argue the point theoretically all you want --
real world use has not revealed any problems.
> > > > 
> > > > There is nothing preventing an owner from dyno or gas analyzer
tuning his carb. Allstate Carburetor (www.allcarbs.com) sells Motorcraft
jets in every size available (eBay jet sizes are hit & miss). Also, if any
owner wants to use a venturi size other than 1.08", Autolite castings have
many more size options than Motorcraft (bear in mind that Autolite 2100's
have twitchy choke pulloffs, and there isn't any easy way to put a
Motorcraft pulloff on an Autolite casting). Owners seem happy with the
castings and jets I provide, however subjective that happiness may in fact
be. 
> > > > 
> > > > I know it frustrates your theoretical arguments, but real world
experience is all I have to offer. Catalytic converters simply are not
melting -- sorry. Apparently the only way I can make them melt is to jet the
carbs far richer than I do. Also, owners are reporting good fuel economy and
performance. You can call them delusional or liars if you want -- I'm just
happy that they are happy.
> > > > 
> > > > Correction to my original post: 2 owners wanted partial conversions,
not complete conversions. Everyone else has requested the full monty.
> > > > 
> > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > #5939
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Martin Gutkowski <martin@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ...so you aren't going to answer the points about accurate AFR 
> > > > > and the incompatibility with a 3-way catalyst?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Fine, you make a bolt-on fuel delivery system, we get that. Well
done. 
> > > > > Stop trying to sell it as something it isn't and we'll stop 
> > > > > criticising you for trying. Marc put it best in his last 
> > > > > email, you keep advertising it as solving problems you alone are
finding.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 12/04/2012 20:00, content22207 wrote:
> > > > > > While each owner who carbureted his DeLorean had reasons to do
so unique to himself (ask nicely and any of them likely will tell you what
those reasons were), I think it is safe to say that not a single one of them
wanted to design and fabricate a new induction system from the ground up.
They wanted a bolt on, turn key replacement that would work reliably from
the first key turn onward. That is what I make. Arguments that these owners
should have designed and built their own induction systems (of whatever ilk)
probably ring hollow in their ears. That other owners have done so is
irrelevant -- people who come to me are looking for a complete conversion in
a single box, a "kit" if you will.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > > > #5939
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please
address:
> > > > moderators@
> > > > 
> > > > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> > > > www.dmcnews.com
> > > > 
> > > > To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > > moderators@
> > > 
> > > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> > > www.dmcnews.com
> > > 
> > > To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > moderators@
> > 
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> > www.dmcnews.com
> > 
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators@...
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
>







------------------------------------

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    dmcnews-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    dmcnews-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    dmcnews-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/