Well, I've taken everyone's advice and ideas and tried them all, and thie is where I'm at. No issues with the battery all electrics are working all earths are good Power and switched power to the starter/solenoid Last night I removed the starter from the car, and tried to fire it on the workbench, and found the problem, The solenoid will fire, and engages on the starter, however the starter does not turn, I think it's dead. Now I know alot of you have said that it is rare for a starter to fail, however it's also rare for a torsion bar to break. I've had one so maybe I can have the other. Starter is now in for repair/Recon should get it back monday. Thanks for all your help Paul #6463 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com