Re: How difference between 500+ page Vinyl repair manual and vender's one

["therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas@xxxx>" <DMCVegas@xxxx>]

--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty@xxxx>" <
jtrealty@xxxx> wrote:
> I have noticed in the couple of Workshop manuals I have seen that 
> there is a large chunk missing from the Automatic Transmission 
> section. I bet 95% of people have never noticed it mainly because 
> their car is a 5-speed. Another big reason is that unless you are 
> actually rebuilding the automatic transmission the missing information 
> isn't important. I got my manual from P J Grady and until I pointed 
> out to Rob about the missing pages he didn't even realize it. (They 
> were able to provide the missing pages). Besides the "missing pages" 
> there are numerous errors throughout the manual, some small and some 
> large...
<SNIP>

It's very interesting that you bring this up. I have what appears to be a 
"bootleg" copy of the workshop manual. A few years ago when I first joined 
the DML, I knew that I needed to buy a Workshop Manual to study. So long 
story short, I acquired a used one off of the internet. Once I got an new manual 
from DMCH though, I just put this one aside, and forgot about it. Pulling it out 
of the closet, I've examined it a bit further.

The manual appears to be a "custom" copy that someone hand-edited. For 
instance, every page has a # typed in the lower corners. The entire section on 
"Frame/Body" is hand typed with only a couple of clip-art inserts from the Parts 
Manual. Another thing is that the sections in this manual are labled by 
numbers, and not by letters in the "new" maual that I have. The Engine and 
Auto Tranny sections are quite detailed with the engine section adding in 
photos of the teardown of a B27F motor from a Volvo manual. The Tranny 
section is almost the same, but is by far more disoriented in as the layout is 
different. But id comes in @ 58 pages long.

Aside from a few custom inserts such as including the template, and 
instructions on how to install a rear antenna, there are other variations in the 
manual. Some are large in as a 20 page detailed trouble shooting guide for 
engine operation including one for the Idle Speed Control circuit, and a 
Diagnostic Guide for the LAMBDA ECU. Others are not quite as impressive 
such as the Heating & A/C section @ a whopping 6 pages with no explicit 
details other than a quick troubleshooting guide. The Tranny section though 
also has an interesting tidbit. In the list of "Special Tools", the first is missing 
the mention of the C1 Clutch Compressor, but the second paragraph includes 
an additional item called a "Converter Oil Seal Inserting Tool", and gives 
COMPLTELY different part #'s such as B.Vi714 for the dismantling tool.

In reading both of the manuals, I can tell you that the problem with the 
inaccuracies isn't due to incorrect information, so much as incomplete/sloppy 
tranlsations and adaptations for the DMC-12 application (ie. the A/C section 
has footnotes for 1979 & earlier vehicles). If a rewrite is to be done, then one 
person shouldn't take on the entire book. Individual sections should be 
completed by people with specific experience in the particular repairs, and 
they should be written/proofread one at a time.

Anywho, I just wanted to throw in another 2 cents, and let everyone know that 
there appears to be yet another manual out there. Where this one came from, 
I've no idea for certain, but only a guess.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"