Re: [DML] Concours Judging (response to David T.) *LONG*

[FatBoy <fatboy7@xxxx>]

[MODERATOR NOTE: THIS POST IS BOTH INFLAMATORY AND ANONYMOUS. However, this thread has already gotten hot, and this post does present another point of view. This anonymous post claims a number of facts that I am unable to verify. If this information concerns you, please feel free to post corrections to it. Above all, please respond like gentlemen (or ladies, if any choose to enter this thread). Regardless, I will stop accepting any posts to this thread tomorrow. - Moderator Mike Substelny, signing on in the middle of a fire.]

Hello Mr. Espey,

Let's slow down for a minute or two and clarify some of facts regarding
Concours d' Elegance competition as it relates to DeLorean automobiles.

Permit me to begin with this statement: This issue will not be resolved with
a few off-the-cuff remarks by a few uninformed, wannabe, know-it-alls in
this forum.

Let's start by eliminating some of the people who, using the automotive
vernacular, begin by "running off at the mouth before putting their brain
into gear"! Let's start by agreeing on one given fact; I own a DeLorean
automobile.

Unlike the prevailing desire of several of the individuals who post
regularly to this forum and would like to modify the rules of Concours
d'Elegance competition to fit their personal poor quality automobiles and
modifications, you must admit at the onset that each of you has a very
limited knowledge of what real Concours d'Elegance competition is all about.

Let's also play this game by the following rules: Each member of the
DeLorean Mailing List who is participating in this exercise and/or is
monitoring the progress of this effort goes back into the archives of the
DML and reads each of the previous postings of the respondents by searching
by their first and/or last name and by their posted V.I.N.

For example: Mr. Teitelbaum, (VIN #10757) I seem to remember I read
somewhere you posted that you won a second place trophy in the Concours
d'Elegance at the Cleveland event in the past. However, you neglected to
advise us who won First Place and how many other cars were competing that
day in Concours d'Elegance competition. If memory serves me correctly,
there were only 4 DeLorean automobiles competing in Concours d'Elegance area
of the competition that day. We're not talking about daily drivers or
Peoples Choice cars. Second place in an "Ugly Woman" contest gives you
neither the right nor a stake in how the rules are created, interpreted and
applied. Mr. Teitelbaum, pause for a moment and consider the fact that you
simply own a DeLorean automobile like all the other owners who monitor this
forum. Second place does not qualify you to write the rules for us!

Mr. Battles, (VIN: 06569): How many DeLorean automobiles have you owned? If
we search the archives of the DML using your name and/or VIN number will we
discover that you have had problems with this and perhaps other DeLorean
automobiles?

Mr. Marc Levy : Didn't you have some problem with your car when you refused
to heed the advice of DeLorean service facility professional to repair
your exhaust manifolds and/or head gaskets and overheated on the way home
from the service facility? I don't recall the exact posting or how long ago
it was posted, but I'm sure we can all look it up under your name! Doesn't
your DeLorean have a turbo charger? Is it lowered?

Mr. Michael Pack: How many DeLorean automobiles have you owned? Do you own
one at this time? Have you ever entered a Concours d'Elegance for DeLorean
automobiles?
What gives you the right to require the Concours d'Elegance judges to list
their credentials? Get into the competition and let's see what you bring to
the table!






Mr. Knut Grimsrud: Well I am impressed with the fact that you can read the
judging manual and have the willingness to review and study your judging
assignment. Have you ever participated in DeLorean automobile Concours
d'Elegance competition? How did you fare? Just because one goes to medical
school and reads a few books on procedures, does that make that individual a
qualified doctor? If you require 30 minutes to judge a portion of a
DeLorean automobile and another qualified individual can judge the same area
in 10 or 15 minutes, does that make you a better judge or just a slower
judge?

Marty Maier: Just because you are a DML Moderator, what are your
credentials that permit you the opportunity to question the motives and/or
qualifications of Michael Pack? Can we look-up your name and VIN history in
the archives of the DML and read the condition of your car and your
qualifications as a prospective judge?

Now for the time being, this little exercise brings us back to Mr. James
Espey's comments. To begin: 1. Do you own a DeLorean automobile Mr. Espey?
2. If so, what is your complete Vehicle Identification Number? 3. Is this
the same 1981 DeLorean automobile for which you bought a used 1983 Door from
Bob Miller in North or South Carolina and installed on your car when you
were a Moderator on the DML a while ago? 4. Was that a correct replacement
for a damaged door on car which may be judged for Concours d'Elegance
competition some day or evaluated for investment purposes? Did you advise
the purchaser that the door had been changed? By the way, there are at
least 3 different DeLorean automobile door panel configurations.

Mr. Espey, how can you assert that DeLorean One and the DeLorean Owners
Association were willing to "let it (Concours) die"? Upon what facts do you
base this allegation? My documentation reveals that Ed Bernstein of
DeLorean One wrote the first Concours d'Elegance judging manual and rule
book in January 1986 to be used in the 1st DeLorean automobile Concours
d'Elegance, sponsored by DeLorean One in the gardens of the Armor Estate in
Lake Forest, Illinois? Did you have a driver's license in January 1986?
When did you buy your DeLorean automobile?

Why do you state that the DeLorean Owner's Association let the DeLorean
automobile Concours d'Elegance competition die? Do you know who Dorothy
Bradley Gates is? Do you know who Anthony Ieradi is? Do you know any of
the Concours DeLorean judges and DeLorean Owners Association Concours
d'Elegance judges who have re-worked and refined the original DeLorean
competition regulations from 1986 until October 1999 when The DeLorean Motor
Company Concours was FIRST held in St. Louis, Missouri at the DeLorean
Owners Association Exposition that year? Mr. Espey, that was only 30 months
ago!

Mr. Espey, you didn't "write the book", you simply expanded upon some of the
guidelines that had been in place for 14 years with additional information
discovered in documentation which was unknown by the general ownership prior
to transfer of ownership by the KAPAC Company in Columbus, Ohio.





Now, If the DeLorean Owners Association held a DeLorean automobile Concours
d'Elegance in St. Louis, Missouri as recently as 30 months ago, how can you
say they let it die?

You also neglected to say that Ed and Millie Bernstein flew to the DeLorean
Owners Association Expo in St. Louis, Missouri from California that year and
after the Expo flew directly from St. Louis to New York City to board the
Concorde for a round-trip wedding anniversary trip to London and Paris. You
also forgot to mention that Bernstein/DeLorean One elected to forgo their
sponsorship of the Concours d'Elegance (Concours DeLorean) that year because
of the limited amount of time and personnel available to them because of
their conflicting, tight vacation schedule.

Now if you can all take a breather and ponder the points mentioned; do a
little homework and research into the DML archives; check the past issues of
DeLorean World Magazine and get your facts straight, we can explore this
matter further in the near future.

By the way. a "concourse" is a large open space for crowds, as in an airline
terminal.

If you can't spell Concours d'Elegance, how can you dummies write the rule
book and compete as a participant? Surely, none of you have earned the
privilege of using the word "Concours d'Elegance" in it's abbreviated form,
you simply can't spell it!

Fatboy

----- Original Message -----
From: jv_espey <james@xxxx>
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: [DML] Concours Judging (response to David T.) *LONG*


> David -
>
> Now that I am back in Houston on a full-time basis, it's my intent to
> devote more time to the concours rules and judging. Here are my
> thoughts after reading your recent posting to the DML.
>

[VERY long quote snipped by moderator]