Black clutch fluid is bad. Especially if it has any viscosity or "thickness" to it. Clean clutch fluid (DOT4) should be a light-gold, yet transparent color. By the discription you've given, it sounds like bad fluid. The question here shouldn't be if the previous owner used new hydrolic parts, it's if he reused the old clutch fluid. New parts don't stand a chance against contaminated clutch fluid. Also a concern should be the hose connected between the reserviour and the master cylinder. The inner hose my car for example was slightly deteriorated, but the outside was rock hard. Using substandard parts isn't a good idea because the fluid can be corrosive and eat away at the rubber causing debries to form in the lines. This is the best way to describe how the fluid works, and how/why it fails. Liquids can be compressed to take up less space then they currently occupy. The differance between water and clutch fluid is that it takes MUCH more pressure to compress clutch fluid then it does water. So, rather then using a rod or a cable to link the clutch to the pedal, clutch fluid is used. It ends up being almost the same, except now rather then something solid that would have to have been designed and accomodated in the car, a liquid can be used. Advantages include both less space required, less engineering involved, and it can go thru tighter twists and turns. Think of it like a liquid rod. When clutch fulid fails (usually thru water contamination), the pressue that is nessisary to compress the fluid is reduced. Which is why you end up having to press harder/further on the clutch pedal. Another negative side is that it can become corrosive twards the rubber seals and hoses in the system. Another symptom can also be air in the line (also compressable). And since air can contain moisture, water can be absorbed from exposed air. (DISCLAIMER: I know that there is ALOT more to the explanation of hydrolic operations and applications. But this is only a quick run thru to give a general idea.) When ever you bleed or flush a hydrolic system be it the brakes or your clutch line, you MUST ALWAYS USE FRESH FLUID FROM A SEALED CONTAINER! 1. The fluid inside has already met with air/moisture/debries and should always be considered contaminated. 2. If not inside, the the bleeder screw and/or the container that you collect the fulid in is probably dirty. 3. In either case, at least one of the above factors will be true. If you put the fluid back into the reserviour, you will taint the entire system. The blackness of the fluid is dirt and might be rubber that has been eaten off by the fluid from 1 or more components of the system. Solution: Replace the hose from between the master cylinder and the resivour. Either buy a new one from your friendly parts vendor, or use a suitable replacement. If you choose to create your own, here's what to do: Remove the rubber hose, and take it to some place like carquest. Ask them for a hose that will withstand DOT4 brake fluid. Get the new hose to match the largest diamiter of the old hose (where it connects to the nubs). When sizing up the new hose, make it long enough to reach between the two connection points, but short enough that it doesn't bend up to keep air bubbles in the line. Bleed the system and see if that makes a differance. Until you complete either this or any repairs, do not drive your car if you can help it. As you can damage the clutch. How the clutch works: Setup/location: The clutch pressure place is bolted onto the flywheel. The clutch disc itself sits between the flywheel and clutch pressure plate. The clutch disc is connected directly to the input shaft on your transmission. How it all works: The pressure plate acts like a clamp. When the clamp is applied the clutch disc is pinned in between the pressure place and the flywheel. When this happens, all three componets will spin as one single unit, thus transfering power from the engine directly to the tranmission. Why it can fail (1 reason): All clutches will fail eventually. This is why they are considered wearable parts, and usually NOT convered by bumper to bumper waranties. How and when depend on 2 factors: The clutch system, and the driver. Excluding normal usage (100K-150K miles), here is what causes premature clutch slippage. As you know, the pressure plate clamps the clutch disc. But, if the force of the plate pressure isn't fully applied to the clutch disc, then the clamp and the flywheel are not able to fully grip the disc. Even though you can still accellerate, the disc is spinning at a different speed then the flywheel and the pressure plate. Aside from not being able to fully utilize the power being put out by the engine, you are also damaging the clutch. As the flywheel and pressure plate spin around the clutch disc, they are both slowly scraping away at it's surface. When the clutch finally fails, the pressure plate and the fly wheel will not be able to properly grip the disc. The result will start as poor accelleration, and end up as no accelleration at all. In other words, it will literally slip through it's grasp. Thus the term clutch slippage. Both cases of this type of premature failure are usually caused by 1 of 3 reasons: 1. Defective clutch (rare). Misadjusted/defective clutch release system (hydrolic or cable. Can happen, but not common with normal maintenance/newer cars). 3. Driver error (hard rabbit starts, double clutching, or the most common reason for this is the drive always "rides" the clutch and doesn't take thier foot off). Driver error is usually the absolute most common reason for premature clutch failure. There are also 2 other parts to the clutch system: The throw out bearing, and the pilot bearing. The pilot bearing supports the end of the input shaft on the transmission. And the Throwour bearing is what pushes the spring on the clutch to release it. Since these also help the clutch in it's task, that's why all 5 parts wear the same as 1 unit, and should be replaced as so. If your clutch fails, do not drive the car if you can help it. The clutch disc uses metal rivits to hold the clutch material in place. When the material is gone is when the clutch slips. And the rivets will cut into the flywheel. Anytime you replace a clutch, the flywheel MUST be resurfaced. But just like brake rotors, it can only be ground down so far. Too far and the flywheel will then need to be replaced as well. Differance between the regular Centerforce Clutch vs. OEM: Comparing the the two clutches side by side, I have only seen 1 physical differance between the 2: Counterweights. As the engine spins faster, centrifical force pushes the weights out. This then causes the weights to apply extra pressure to the pressure plate above what it already has. This produces the extra gripping power that the Centerforce is able to boast. Clutch disc wise, I don't see a differance between the two. The look exactly the same, down to their manufacturers. I hope that everything above helps everyone here to understand not just how their clutches work and fail. But also to help know how to take care of them to extend their lifespan. Hopefully this will not only answer questions that my be asked today, but tomorrow as well... -Robert vin 6585 --- In dmcnews@xxxx, Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus@xxxx> wrote: > When I got my car the previous owner told me he replaced all the hydralics > and I believed him he had invoices from DMC houston and the clutch > cylinders don't look too old, but when I bled the clutch luid about a year > after I got the car it was blacker and gunkier than 20 year old fluid. I > put in new fluid, but I feel my clutch slowly deteriorating. <SNIP>