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------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Radio bracket from DMC Houston...
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
2. Re: RE: door opener actuators
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
3. Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
4. Re: James...the magazine?
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome@xxxxxxx>
5. Re: A new alternator problem! (And a radar detector install to boot)
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
6. Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
7. Re: door opener actuators
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
8. Re: New Frame
From: Bob Brandys <BobB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
9. NV, CA visit, owners?
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
10. door lights
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
11. Anyone interested in Flux Capacitor replicas for sale?
From: "Casey Putsch" <chaparral2a002@xxxxxxxxxxx>
12. Idler Pully Bearings
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
13. Idler pully bearings
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
14. Re: DeLorean Decals
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman@xxxxxxxx>
15. Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
From: "khyron_21502" <khyron_21502@xxxxxxxxx>
16. Doors Up/Doors Down
From: Watkins Family <watbmv@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
17. Re: DeLorean Decals
From: "tp8534" <mpolans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
18. RE: AC Panel (and Misc.) illumination
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean@xxxxxxxxx>
19. Window switch will not mount correctly in console
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean@xxxxxxxxx>
20. Re: DeLorean Replicas?
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
21. Re: Possible Frozen Fuel Gauge
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
22. Re: Radio bracket from DMC Houston...
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
23. Re: DeLorean Replicas?
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade@xxxxxxxxxxx>
24. ADMIN: Monthly Reminder
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
25. Back To The Future Pinball Machine
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:05:45 -0700
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Radio bracket from DMC Houston...
That's not the Mid-Atlantic site. You're thinking of the Mid-State DeLorean
Club.
Mark Noeltner
VIN 6820
At 01:32 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
<snip>
>BTW, what happened to the parts-for-sale area of the Mid-Atlantic DMC site?
>I can understand them not wanting to sell brackets to compete with Houston,
>but what happened to all the other cool stuff like the stainless steel
>braded brake lines & such?
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:25:02 EST
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: RE: door opener actuators
I have read your thread about the door opener but I don't fully
understand the system. Are we talking "door launcher" here? I need more a
complete discription of the system, if you're talking about a launcher
system.
Don # 6860
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:28:52 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
> i'm not sure what you mean by the "Y-pipe".
I'm talking about that loopy looking set of air pipes in the front of the
engine that some people call the "ram horns". I've been e-mailed photos of
what they look like after they have been polished. In the photos, they look
like chrome to me.
By the way, that extrudehone web site is very impressive. I'm wondering
what it would cost to have them do some of the PRV parts.
http://www.extrudehone.com/automotiveoem.html
Walt Tampa, FL
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:51:38 -0800
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: James...the magazine?
Les,
After three e-mails to DMC Houston over about a two-week period with the same question to them and no response I decided to call them and a woman who identified herself as Lisa said the second edition is about to be released. She didn't specify exactly when and I didn't ask her but the impression I got with
within a few days. I'm guessing but think they have probably just been too
busy moving to respond.
Joe
VIN 6467
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:59:04 EST
From: DHughes030@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: A new alternator problem! (And a radar detector install to boot)
John and others,
Current Ford vehicles (since 1986) are dependent on the in dash bulb to
charge. Early models had a 500 ohm resister in parallel with the bulb and
placed in the twist in type bulb holder. if they fell out or made poor
contact, the alternator couldn't charge. It was the devil to fix if you
didn't think (or know) to look at the battery symbol on the dash as part of
diag. What about finding a suitable resistor for the D and soldiering it in
parallel with the bulb on the printed circuit (like recent Fords)?
Don
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:58:38 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
Porting and polishing will only work as part of an overall plan. It is
used in the larger context of what is called "blueprinting" an engine
i.e. making it as close to exact specs as possible, closer than the
ordinary production tolerances. As such you do ALL breathing surfaces
including the heads, and the exhaust manifolds. What goes in can only
go in as fast as what goes out permits so you must work on BOTH sides.
Another point to consider, in some cases a rough surface creates a
boundry layer that promotes mixing keeping the air fuel mixture
turbulent so that droplets don't settle out in different runners.
Making it too smooth inside might actually degrade performance. This
is where many parts are made and tested on flow benches to see what
actually improves things. Keeping crossection small also keeps airflow
high which improves the inertia of the air flow. This is really no
area to tinker in unless you are ready to spend $BUCKS$. A slip of a
grinder and you wasted a part and it is really easy to go too deep too
fast in aluminum. Polishing the "Y" pipe inside won't have any effect
as it only carries coolant. The PRV-6 engine seems to be a very finely
engineered SYSTEM so improving 1 thing will have a minor effect.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, Soma576@xxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 3/1/02 10:45:56 PM Central Standard Time,
Whalt@xxxx
> writes:
>
>
> > BTW, I'm also considering a different design for the throttle
spool cover
> > that would fit UNDER the Y-pipe. The OEM one just looks like it
doesn't
> > belong there and unbalances the symetry.
> >
> > Walt
>
> Walt,
>
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 03:05:07 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: door opener actuators
For those of you interested in actuators and other related things I
found an interesting website for remote kits, etc.
www.autoloc.com
How about a FLAME THROWER!!!!!! HOOK THAT UP TO A REMOTE!!!!
They also have a kit for one touch-express windows.
David Teitelbuam
vin 10757
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:11:54 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: New Frame
Walter
I really like the PDC frame.
That is great to here that you are getting one. . What engine and trans upgrade are you
considering. ?
I hope that someday we can set up a slow shalom race and see if the SS frame also
handles better.
BOB
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:27:27 EST
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
Subject: NV, CA visit, owners?
Hello,
I will be leaving for Mammoth Mtn, CA on March 15th for a snowboard trip.
On the way back I will be in Reno all day on the 23rd. I plan on visiting
the 24k gold DMC in the Harroh Museum that day before I fly out. If there
are any owners in the Mammoth Lakes or Reno area maybe we could get something
to eat or perhaps meet up on the mountain. drop me an email.
Thanks
David
#6286-IN2TIME-MI
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:32:06 EST
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
Subject: door lights
Hi List,
I finally took care of most of the bigger problems on my car, so now I
can start messing with the little things. The passenger side door lights
will not come on.(drivers side work fine) I checked the bulbs and fuse and
they are fine. when I open the passenger door the door ajar light on the
dash will come on so that means the switch is working, right? when i
adjusted the torsion bars I cleaned all of the contacts going to the door
under the T panel so I think those are fine. any help would be GREATLY
appreciated.
Thank you
David
6286
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:56:29 -0500
From: "Casey Putsch" <chaparral2a002@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Anyone interested in Flux Capacitor replicas for sale?
I am thinking of making exact or very close WORKING (in the sense that the
lights flash the same way) Flux Capacitor replicas for Delorean fitment
powered by 12 volts. Would any of you be interested in buying one if I do
this? They won't be super cheap but I think the price will be very
reasonable.
Sincerely, Casey at chaparral2a002@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://putschdesign.tripod.com/PPD/
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 04:14:17 -0000
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Idler Pully Bearings
Group, I finally got around to getting the High grade Idler pully
bearings which won't wear out as fast. These are the ones used in
special application alternators and other things. We call them Blue
Seal,EMQ. The normal Black seal we have talked about several times
wearing out to fast. Well try these. Walt, I'm sure can appreciate
them. They are on the front page of the web site.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 04:59:17 -0000
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Idler pully bearings
Group, Here is some info i found on the web about EMQ bearings.
John Hervey
Ningbo Ninghuan Twincam Bearing Co.,Ltd. is an enterprise which is
specialized in producing miniature bearings, small deep groove ball
bearings, water pump integrated bearings for automobiles, automobile
bearings, rolling mill bearings and other types of bearings with high
technology, named as Ningbo Miniature Bearing Factory before. The
miniature bearings are the bore diameter ranging from 3 to 12mm
(Metric series) or 1/8" to 1/2" (Inch Series). Our company pocesses
modern equipment and advanced technology. Our products are high
precision, long life and steadily reliability with strict quality
control system according to the standard ISO9000.
Recently, we has been developed a new series of NII bearings which
are conformed to the EMQ electric motor's quality standard and could
be running in higher speed, more load and lower noise. The water pump
integrated bearings for automobiles include the structure of double
row balls, single row balls and single row rollers and as well
asangular contact. The fatigue life of the water pump integrated
bearings on rack testing rig which is specially designed for them
reached more than 2000 hours and fitted on automobiles, which ran 150
thousands kilometers, the products were still in good condition
(measured by USA users). Our products sell well in domestic markets
and other countries such as USA, West-Europe, East & South Asia, etc
This tells a little more about bearings.
John
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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:07:29 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Decals
Hi Scott and Group,
You might remember Scott Soenksen from Florida did this to his car awhile back. That
car now belongs to my Dad, but Scott gave me a picture of his work...it's on my website
at the following address:
http://www.geocities.com/delorean-12/scott26.jpg
He also tried just "DMC" which can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/delorean-12/newdpix7.jpg
I have to apologize for that last one...what a horrible picture of me! (haha) We ended
up having to remove the DMC after a short while, because the material got chipped and
torn in a few spots.
Just thought those pics might help in making your decision.
Cheers,
Josh
VIN 5102
VIN 15964
Scott Mueller wrote:
> I would be interested in a windshield decal that goes across the top.
>
> DeLorean
> DMC-12
>
> either one of these would be acceptable to me
> They would look best if they were done using the DeLorean font.
>
> Scott Mueller
> 002981
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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:50:34 -0000
From: "khyron_21502" <khyron_21502@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: porting, polishing & chroming intake manifold
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxx> wrote:
snip
> I've seen a photo of something like this on Don Steger's web site,
but the
> FX makes it hard to see.
http://www.deloreanmotorcenter.com/restoration.htm
> Does anyone have any other photos of this or anything similar?
The car in that photo looks like mine #3180.
I uploaded a picture of the engine before installation.
Its in the folder "Chromed" in the Photos Section.
I'll try to get some pictures of it in the car today if i can.
Chrome requires a little more maintanace as it gets dusty looking
farly quicky. But its easy to clean.
Scott
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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:23:11 -0500
From: Watkins Family <watbmv@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Doors Up/Doors Down
With all due respect to the list, I feel that the doors up/doors down
posts have taken an odd tone. We all have our favorite display modes,
I feel it is not worthy of our list to challenge those that prefer one
over the other. We are all proud of our cars either doors up or doors
down. If DeLorean wanted the car to be "normal" he would have made the
doors normal. He fought for the Gull-Wings. So it is reasonable for
owners to want to show off this feature of the car. It is also
reasonable to keep the doors down to show off the sleek styling that
makes the car so unique. I for one spend time at car shows in both
modes......doors up for a few hours and then doors down for a few. I
have also done one up and one down.
Lets not start an endless debate over an issue that is totally personal.
There can be no winner in this.
Thanks
Tom Watkins
#005732 MT
http://www.geocities.com/outatime81
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:44:58 -0000
From: "tp8534" <mpolans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Decals
Scott,
Are you sure? This could incur a bit of a cost and a lot of work
to get it on right, and what if you don't like the results? The
previous owner did "DeLorean" across the top of my windshield in the
correct font. How does it look? You tell me. My car, VIN #16816, is
posted in the photos section under People's Cars. What do you think?
Granted, this car has so many DeLorean and DMC badges that Walt would
probably have a heart attack. (I'm just glad those pictures are all
with the doors closed so I won't have to hear another post about it.
Wouldn't want to be responsible for that.) Yep, it's a bit much with
everything, but does the windshield sticker really look good to you?
Honestly I don't care for it. I am going to leave it on for a while
as right now it definitely is unique. I don't think it will ever grow
on me but I am going to give it a chance. I never would have done it
if given the opportunity, but I know everyone is different. Just want
to make sure everyone knows what this will look like.
Matthew
VIN #10365
VIN #16816
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:26:50 -0500
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: AC Panel (and Misc.) illumination
Walt, (and anyone else who has info on this)
I just put my new console in yesterday, and I too am noticing the light
shine thru the edges of hte AC control panel (and it never used to).
Is this maybe becuase the lights on the back of the panel are pushed thru
more now then originally (I think they were slightly recessed into the
sockets, and when i reinstalled them, i pushed them all the way in)
Just wondering...
THis is really bothering me! DO you think painting the edges black will
help?
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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:29:05 -0500
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Window switch will not mount correctly in console
I put my console back together after installing my radio, and oddly enough,
my driver side window switch will not mount into its socket, unless i turn
it 180 degrees! Then, the passenger and driver button are oposite!
The passenger one is mounted correctly, and works as it always did, but the
driver side one will not push into place, and "pops" up. Any ideas?
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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:24:27 EST
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DeLorean Replicas?
In a message dated 3/2/02 7:25:44 PM Central Standard Time,
joshp1986@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> I'm doing everything I can to find a DeLorean running or not that
> is around central Arkansas,or around the state but I can't seem to
> have any luck. although there is a Briklin for sale about 10 miles
> from my house.Mmmm...I kind of got off the subject.Well, if anybody
> has any info about the replicas please respond.
> Thanks alot,
> Porterhouse
>
the reason you can't find a replica of a DeLorean is because you can own the
real thing for less than a new domestic car! my advice is to save your money
and wait until you are a little older before you buy a rare car like a
DeLorean or a Bricklin. it will probably spend more time in the garage than
taking you where you need to be like your job or school (unless you pay more
for one in good condition). unless you have any special circumstances, i
would not buy a non-running DeLorean if i were only 16 again.
just my advice! i'm 19 and i own one but it has put me into a lot of debt.
not to say that i don't enjoy owing money for something so sweet!
Andy
Soma576@xxxxxxx
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:38:20 EST
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Possible Frozen Fuel Gauge
In a message dated 2/28/02 10:34:13 PM Central Standard Time,
webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> This is the first car I've seen where the fuel guage works continuously,
> even when the
> engine's off. (note to self: check wiring diagram....)
>
> Martin
>
Martin,
Mine doesn't work continuously! if you go to the gas station and fill up on
empty, you have to put the key to 'on' before the gauge will go up. my
sender is OEM.
Andy
Soma576@xxxxxxx
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:52:13 EST
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Radio bracket from DMC Houston...
In a message dated 3/2/02 7:04:44 PM Central Standard Time, Whalt@xxxxxxx
writes:
> BTW, what happened to the parts-for-sale area of the Mid-Atlantic DMC site?
> I can understand them not wanting to sell brackets to compete with Houston,
> but what happened to all the other cool stuff like the stainless steel
> braded brake lines &
you must mean the Midstate DMC Club. they have all that stuff!
http://www.midstatedmc.com
Andy
Soma576@xxxxxxx
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:56:34 -0500
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Replicas?
Not to burst your bubble but you really need to look into the cost of any
replica. Just talked to someone that did a Hummer. Kit was $6k. Then he
decided he wanted doors (something I consider nice to have and frankly a
Delorean with no doors would be silly), etc... Final price $12k to the
manufacturer. Then he had to buy the local misc. parts, sacrificial
vehicle, etc… and the final price was about $30k and the better part of a
year to build.
Ed
10541
--orig msg---
...since I can't afford a refurbeshed DeLorean or a mid
contition one I was wondering if anyone knows of a web-site in where I could
maybe find a replica car.
Thanks alot,
Porterhouse
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:55:52 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: ADMIN: Monthly Reminder
Time for the Moderator's monthly spam....
------------------------------------------------------
THIS POST CONTAINS IMPORTANT SUBSCRIPTION, UNSUBSCRIPTION, AND EXPECTATIONS
OF THE DELOREAN MAILING LIST. YOU SHOULD REVIEW IT, PRINT IT OUT, AND KEEP
IT IN A SAFE PLACE SO THAT YOU CAN REFER TO IT IN THE FUTURE. THIS FILE IS
SENT TO EACH MEMBER ON THE FIRST OF EACH MONTH AS A REMINDER OF ITS
EXISTENCE AND THE INFORMATION CONTAINED THEREIN.
Updated December 9, 2001
Welcome fellow DeLorean enthusiast: This is the DeLorean mailing list.
Please take a moment to review this message. It includes some rules of
conduct, information about web sites for the list, as well as subscription
and unsubscription information.
1.0 CHARTER - This list exists for the enthusiasts of the DeLorean cars
produced during the 1981-83 model years. We all have a bit to learn from
each other, and welcome ALL DeLorean owners as members of the group. This
list also exists for the benefit of those for whom ownership is a future
event and would like to get a handle on what it takes to live with, or be
married to, these wonderful cars. This list exists independently of the
current business known as the DeLorean Motor Company, or any other groups,
email lists, or web sites dealing with DeLorean automobiles other than
www.dmcnews.com.
2.0 RESTRICTIONS - This is an unrestricted subscription list. Anyone may
join at any time without approval. All postings are subject to approval by
the active member of the moderating team. Please note that, in order to
reduce unsolicited spam, only authorized subscribers can post messages;
anonymous postings don't get past the list processor. Topics should deal
with anything concerning owning, fixing, driving, restoring, detailing, or
anything else tangential with what it takes to live with these unique and
affordable automobiles. Also welcome are discussion of the DeLorean Motor
Company (the original manufacturer) and John Z. DeLorean himself. Personal
impressions, links to sites, links to other information or personal
experiences are especially welcome. Personal, side observations of off-topic
areas should be minimized, but right now, are not absolutely forbidden.
Please be respectful of each other's mailboxes. Flames, intolerance, gross
characterizations, or any racial, ethnic, or orientation slurs are
forbidden. The moderator will delete obscenities and any intolerant
comments. The decision of the moderator as to what is obscene, intolerant,
or not in keeping with 'spirit' of the list is final. This is, and has
been, and will continue to be, a "G" rated list.
3.0 ITEMS FOR SALE/SWAP - Items for sale, including cars, for PERSONAL
purposes are just fine; commercial ventures should use good judgment and
restraint (say, no more than once every couple weeks, ok?) and not tie up
the list with advertisements. It has been noted that many list members have
spare parts or knowledge that they are willing to swap or sell to other
members at reasonable cost to help each other out. More detailed vendor
rules at http://www.dmcnews.com/Admin/vendor_rules.html. We tend to frown on
postings seeking a "cheap" DeLorean, as the average list-member tends to
find this offensive. Be sure to include your email ID in the form of
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in the archives.
4.0 NETIQUETTE - Please note that you should use caution when quoting
personal email in your reply, unless you have the acquiescence of all
parties to the communications. Please respect the rights of your fellow
list-members and help maintain some modicum of privacy for private email as
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Especially, please be painfully aware of replying to the list if you are in
DIGEST mode, since a one or two-line retort in the middle of a digest, if
you are quoting the whole digest, is aggravating to your fellow users. We
are a pretty tolerant bunch, but that tolerance has been built up by a long
tradition of respectful and open dialogue by the members of the group here.
5.0 OTHER SHARED FILES - As a member, there is a shared file area you can
upload images to on the yahoo server site; compressed JPEG is the best to
conserve disk space on the servers. We do reserve the right to clean out
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available. We would caution against uploading any scans of copyrighted
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or not the information is for personal use, for now, let's accept the fact
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intellectual property. The fact is, in this litigious society, we don't
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6.0 HOW DO I TURN THIS OFF - To unsubscribe from this list, go to the
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the
User Center link from the menu bar on the left. Or, alternatively, you can
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Can you help? Yes - Go into the members area off of the top page of the
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Technical information is used solely at your own risk. Your use of
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________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 25
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:49:35 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Back To The Future Pinball Machine
I just posted an add on the DMC for a BTTF Pinball machine. It is very
clean and I wanted to offer the members of the DML and the DMCnews
first chance at it. It is at the parts and memorabilia section or you
can E-mail me or call 201-659-1680 Dave-Daytime. I plan to bring it to
the Dust-Off event in April in New Jersey if it isn't sold by then for
everyone to see and play on (and buy!).
david Teitelbaum
vin 10757
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