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There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Drooping doors
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren@xxxxxxx>
2. Variation
From: "Doc" <doctor280@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
3. trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
4. Re: Torquing lug nuts
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxxxxxx>
5. Mysterious blue fascia rub marks
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
6. Re: Re: 1982 DMC for sale
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
7. Anyone interested in 1/3 off at CarParts.com
From: "Bobby Simmons" <bobby_simmons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
8. Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxxxxx>
9. Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
10. Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
From: "jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx " <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
11. Re: Re: Torquing lug nuts
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
12. Delorean Front Crossmemeber wanted
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <Buckeye99@xxxxxxxxxx>
13. Porsche Boxster Seats
From: Cliff Andrews <fen2k@xxxxxxxxx>
14. Re: Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxxxxx>
15. Vin 11596 (1982) Delorean for Sale
From: billschaferabn@xxxxxxx
16. Re: Engine cranks, no start
From: BLuDSuKKuR@xxxxxxx
17. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: deloreanernst@xxxxxxx
18. Roof leaking
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
19. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: "jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx " <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
20. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: kkoncelik@xxxxxxx
21. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: James Espey <james@xxxxxxxxxx>
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 04:02:45 -0000
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Drooping doors
Interesting subject!
A while ago I mentioned in a posting that I had replaced the gas
struts on my -71 Porsche 911T last summer. Yesterday I was
disconnecting the battery and CLUNK, the hood hit me in the head!
Not slam-bang, just a slow descent, but nevertheless irritating.
My second thought was that there got to be a way to test these things.
Obviously you are way ahead and it will be interesting to find out
how your trial to test the gas pressure with a ruler will come out!
My past go/no go experience with gas pressure cylinders of this kind
has been to put one end on the floor and push with my body weight on
the other. If they collapse at all they are no-go, if they don't they
will probably work for a bit longer. Not very scientific! And it will
of course only hold true for relatively light weight hoods.
Do you know the actual weight of the door at the strut attachement
point, with and without a properly adjusted torsion spring?
Reason for my question: It should be fairly easy to determine if the
torsion spring is at fault by attaching a push/pull spring scale to
that point, although I think the weight/moment may be prohibitively
high.
My "D to be" has the droopy door syndrome. I want to buy genuine D
replacements if necessary but I question if it is advisable to do so
if the new ones are close to 20 years old? PJ Grady advertises a
direct replacement, beefier and made to their specifications and that
seems to be a smarter way to go.
The present (past?) owner of my "D to be" indicated that a former
member of the DMC club here in Minnesota had made a torsion bar tool,
however, I do not have his name yet. (I helped a female friend some
time ago to readjust her garage door torsion springs and that
experience left me with a healty respect for the latent power in
torsion bars, if you don't know EXACTLY what to do!)
Roger
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:36:04 -0400
From: "Doc" <doctor280@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Variation
This week my DeLorean developed a vibration that would occur during braking.
I checked each of the four rotors to see if they were warped, but I was
surprised to find that they all appeared to be fine. Puzzled about this, I
dug deeper. Pulled out the rear trailing arm bolts, to make sure they were
still in good shape, which they were. Still puzzled that I was unable to
locate my problem, I put the car back together for a test drive. Same
results, vibration during braking.
Took the wheels off again and check the rotors' run out again. Same results,
could not find one warped. All appeared to be fine. Now the rotors were a
bit shiny, so I started pulling the brake pads and found that all the pads
were glazed over. I removed the glaze on the pads with sandpaper and
reassembled and tested the car. Perfect, no vibration at all.
I would have never thought that a set of glazed brake pads would have cause
a vibration problem, but it was the only thing that I changed on the car.
Just thought that I would share this with the list, just incase someone was
experiencing the same problem.
Robert Starling
Vin#5252.
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:56:27 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
I've got some questions about trailing arm bolts...
Question 1)
The Parts Manual and the Workshop Manual show the trailing arm bolts being
inserted in opposite directions. Which is the correct orientation or does
orientation matter?
Question 2)
How am I supposed to access the trailing arm bolts with the transmission in
the way? Do I have to move the transmission to get to it? Mine is an
automatic transmission.
Question 3)
What is supposed to stop the alignment spacers from falling out? Does the
design rely on pressure from the rubber bushing to hold them in place?
Question 4)
Does torquing the trailing arm bolts compress the rubber bushing enough to
affect toe-in adjustment? i.e., Should I only take measurements with the
bolt fully torqued?
Thanks in advance,
Walt Tampa, FL
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 04:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Torquing lug nuts
I'd say to keep your eye out for anyone using air... not to imply that
people not using air tools are any brighter.
I found that my air wrench tightens to 78 ft-lbs consistently on stage one,
but any idiot can and may decide to crank it up just to make sure they're on
there good'n tight.
I found my lugs had been tightened to 220 ft-lbs the first time I tried to
take the wheels off. I had to go buy a breaker bar just to get them off
because a couldn't physically exert enough force on my ratchet..
long story short, that was probably due to someone with an air wrench... or
maybe a really heavy guy leaning into it? :P
siigh...
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:10:17 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Mysterious blue fascia rub marks
I have noticed blue paint rub marks on two Deloreans that were bought in
different states. Both Deloreans have blue paint scrapes on the corners of
one or both fascias. The color of the blue paint is the same on both cars!
It just seems too coincidental. Has anyone else noticed blue marks on the
fascias of other Deloreans?
If so, then maybe this is something to add to concours competitions. If you
removed the factory blue paint rub marks, then you get points off for not
being original! Maybe PJ Grady, DMC Houston, and D1 will start having to
sell scuff kits to add these factory marks to the corners of our fascias.
Anyone got a paint code?
Walt Tampa, FL
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:13:58 -0400
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: 1982 DMC for sale
Concourse? Not by the current DMC judging standards..
Cliff mentioned that this car had all of the upgrades such as LockZilla,
FanZilla, TankZilla, Steel Braided Clutch line, ect...
Please be aware that this car, although it may be the "Perfect DeLorean", will
not be a "Concourse" car based on the current judging standards.
Erik Geerdink wrote:
>
> I just wanted to add something to this. I bought the rear fascia
> from Clifford, and let me tell you something, this car is AWESOME! I
> have never seen a more perfect Delorean in my life. Definately
> concourse material at it's best.
> I'm not getting paid to say these things, just wanted to let everyone
> know that he's not not lying when he says every bolt is OEM.
>
> Erik Geerdink
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 04:02:42 GMT
From: "Bobby Simmons" <bobby_simmons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Anyone interested in 1/3 off at CarParts.com
Visit:
http://www.newenglandmuscle.com/coupon
I have no idea when this is going to run out, so use it while you can.
I update the site every time I get a new coupon, so check back often.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:35:30 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
Here are the answers to your trailing arm bolt questions.
Question 1)
> The Parts Manual and the Workshop Manual show the trailing arm bolts being
> inserted in opposite directions. Which is the correct orientation or does
> orientation matter?
A: Although the orientation is not critical the factory installed the bolts
with the heads facing outwards.
Question 2)
> How am I supposed to access the trailing arm bolts with the transmission
in
> the way? Do I have to move the transmission to get to it? Mine is an
> automatic transmission.
A: Yes.
Question 3)
> Does the design rely on pressure from the rubber bushing to hold the
alignment spacers in place?
Yes
Question 3)
Does torquing the trailing arm bolts compress the rubber bushing enough to
> affect toe-in adjustment?
A: Each bushing is fitted with a steel sleeve which limits the amount of
compression.
i.e., Should I only take measurements with the
> bolt fully torqued?
A: Yes
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp@xxxxxxx>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:29:15 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxx> wrote:
. . . . trailing arm bolts being
> > inserted in opposite directions. Which is the correct
orientation or does
> > orientation matter?
>
> A: Although the orientation is not critical the factory installed
the bolts
> with the heads facing outwards.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the definition of "heads facing" I
disagree - if this was the case you'd have to lift the body from the
frame to remove the bolts (or cut them off). Every one I've seen (not
as many as Joe!) has the bolt heads facing the transmission (inside
of the frame), with the nuts on the outside almost against the
fiberglass underbody.
Dave Swingle
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:41:17 -0000
From: "jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx " <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
You do not have to remove the automatic transmission to remove the
left trailing arm bolt! On the auto trans cars the bolt will not slip
out, there is not enough room but it can be done. Just disconnect the
trailing arm from the carrier on the left rear wheel, you don't have
to remove the brake line if you are careful and don't bend it too
much. Remember no more than 5 shims per side. If you don't have the
correct ones order them, they are not the same as the ones the shop
will pick up off the floor from the last car on the rack. Also very
important is to torque the bolts with the weight of the car on the
wheels otherwise you will have a preload on the bushing. Before you
take it apart count the shims and put them back the same way. When
you go to the shop have some extra shims just in case.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 AUTOMATIC!
--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx, "Dave Swingle" <dswingle@xxxx> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxx> wrote:
> . . . . trailing arm bolts being
> > > inserted in opposite directions. Which is the correct
> orientation or does
> > > orientation matter?
> >
> > A: Although the orientation is not critical the factory installed
> the bolts
> > with the heads facing outwards.
>
> Unless I'm misunderstanding the definition of "heads facing" I
> disagree - if this was the case you'd have to lift the body from the
> frame to remove the bolts (or cut them off). Every one I've seen
(not
> as many as Joe!) has the bolt heads facing the transmission (inside
> of the frame), with the nuts on the outside almost against the
> fiberglass underbody.
>
> Dave Swingle
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:39:27 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Torquing lug nuts
Yep! 60 ft-lbs on a torque wrench is a lot less force than I am used to
putting on lug nuts the old fashioned way. I'm using a torque wrench from
now on.
Walt Tampa, FL
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:30:43 -0400
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <Buckeye99@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Delorean Front Crossmemeber wanted
I am looking for a good condition/excellent conditon(no rust) front
crossmember for a 1981 Delorean. If anyone knows of any for sale let me know
the price and who to contact. Thanks
Joel
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cliff Andrews <fen2k@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Porsche Boxster Seats
Hey gang, finally got around to getting my delorean
photographed with my new seats.
check it out at
http://www.cyveillance.com/delorean.htm
cliff Andrews
10854- 4 sale :)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:22:00 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
Dave,
Your absolutely correct; bolt heads facing inwards is what I meant. This is
a good example of detailed moderating; nice job Dave.
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp@xxxxxxx>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Swingle <dswingle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: trailing arm bolts & toe-in adjustment
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe@xxxx> wrote:
> . . . . trailing arm bolts being
> > > inserted in opposite directions. Which is the correct
> orientation or does
> > > orientation matter?
> >
> > A: Although the orientation is not critical the factory installed
> the bolts
> > with the heads facing outwards.
>
> Unless I'm misunderstanding the definition of "heads facing" I
> disagree - if this was the case you'd have to lift the body from the
> frame to remove the bolts (or cut them off). Every one I've seen (not
> as many as Joe!) has the bolt heads facing the transmission (inside
> of the frame), with the nuts on the outside almost against the
> fiberglass underbody.
>
> Dave Swingle
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:48:00 EDT
From: billschaferabn@xxxxxxx
Subject: Vin 11596 (1982) Delorean for Sale
FOR SALE
I would like to sell my Jan 1982 Delorean. I have invested $18,000 in this
with what I paid for it and the things I have added. I need to sell this as
soon as possible and will part with it for $16,500. This is a firm price. The
information is as follows:
5 speed
Black interior with Gray carpeting (few were made in this style)
40,800 miles
New Yoko AVS tires (less than 100 miles driven on them)
Wheels have all been newly powder coated
New brakes all around
recently repainted rear facia
6 new gas struts
New 140 AMP Alternator
new carpeting on passenger side
new wiper blades
New rear light circuit board
interior is in good condition
exterior is in good condition
Bill
815-624-0712
Roscoe, IL
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:59:06 EDT
From: BLuDSuKKuR@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Engine cranks, no start
I had the same prob with mine....everything was working and it just cranked
and cranked but it didnt start....what i did was got electrical contact spray
and spayed all the conections...i had been working on it for like 2 weeks
trying to figure out what the problem was....right after i did that i got in
cranked it and it fired up....u can guess how happy i was =0)
-matt
5510
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:27:45 EDT
From: deloreanernst@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
In a message dated 10/26/00 9:43:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< Concourse? Not by the current DMC judging standards..
Cliff mentioned that this car had all of the upgrades such as LockZilla,
FanZilla, TankZilla, Steel Braided Clutch line, ect...
Please be aware that this car, although it may be the "Perfect DeLorean",
will
not be a "Concourse" car based on the current judging standards. >>
Seems to me I recall that if you still have your original parts to display
with the car, the concours rules allow credit for that.
-Wayne
11174
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Roof leaking
Hi guys,
I haven't had my car long, and this past week was the first time I had
ever driven it in rain. I discovered that when it's raining hard, quite a
bit of water drips from the area near the passenger's sun visor. I just
had the headliners replaced, so I certainly want to stop the leak before
the foam rots out.
As some of you guys might remember from the Chicago tech session, the
passenger side of my car has been abused a bit. The tortion bar on that
side is bent so badly that we couldn't get it to come out of the car. The
T panel on the roof is bent up a bit on the passenger's side, and there's
a crack that runs from the top to the bottom of the windshield. It looks
like someone who didn't know what they were doing tried to adjust the
door.
Since the windshield is cracked, a new windshield is on my list of things
to get. Do you think that some of the sealent that's used to hold the
windshiled in might be cracked, allowing water to rush up the windshiled,
underneath the black metal trim, and into the headliner? I'm thinking that
this might be the case, and once the new windshield is fitted, that will
solve the rain problem.
Also, passenger side seal E in this picture:
https://ssl.internetcreations.com/grady/images/sm_door1.gif
has quite a few holes in it. Or to put it better, it's almost as good as
missing. The rest of the seals on the passengers side seem to be fine, so
I'd assume that any rain that gets in through there would just be routed
around and down to come out at the bottom of the door. Is this right, or
might that water be able to get into the headliner near the sun visor? The
water really seems to pour when I'm braking.
By the way, I never moved any further on installing the DVD player/GPS
unit. If I'm sure that someone soon will make an all in one unit that will
fit in the DeLorean's single stereo bay.
-Christian
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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:11:54 -0000
From: "jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx " <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
In the most recent concours held in Cleavland and going by the judging
manual created by James Espey and Steve Wynn of DMC Houston the car
would have points deducted for every change or modifacation from "BONE
STOCK" (including the smaller circuit breakers for the cooling fans
and blower and old door lock module). In some other concours events
held by other marques if you have the correct parts on the ground by
the car or can produce documentation that the car was sold by the
dealer that way they will accept it.Some car clubs like AACA allow any
safety related changes like turn signals, seat belts, safety glass
etc. As long as the owner has the origional parts and didn't cut the
car up you can return it to stock condition. A perfect concours car
would IMHO require all zillas which is a considerable investment plus
new tires, header bottle, radiater, battery switch, etc to be a good
and reliable daily driver and not just a show car.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 2nd place Cleavland Millenium 2000 concours
--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxx, deloreanernst@xxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 10/26/00 9:43:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> malevy@xxxx writes:
>
> << Concourse? Not by the current DMC judging standards..
>
> Cliff mentioned that this car had all of the upgrades such as
LockZilla,
> FanZilla, TankZilla, Steel Braided Clutch line, ect...
>
> Please be aware that this car, although it may be the "Perfect
DeLorean",
> will
> not be a "Concourse" car based on the current judging standards. >>
>
> Seems to me I recall that if you still have your original parts to
display
> with the car, the concours rules allow credit for that.
>
> -Wayne
> 11174
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:31:50 EDT
From: kkoncelik@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
I can assure you that if a car is not original in a DeLorean Concourse Show
There will be deductions
Since the DeLorean doesn't even follow its own rules sometimes ( I have
incorrect bonnet bolts and no dead pedal plus a few more I don't want to tip
off to the judges ) It makes it a bit more difficult.
The way a car is specified from a mfg is sometimes different than what you
get.
DMC Houston has been sponsoring the recent concourses and Members of the DML
and well know DeLorean owners and former owners are the judges to keep it
impartial.
There is a book about the concourse available and it best details what the
show looks for.
Deviate from it and it will cost points. But please bring up these
discrepancies so they can be resolved in future shows. I can assure you that
they are discussed.
While no judging is perfect this is a very good outline
you will know what points will be taken off before the show
Most shows you do not know what the judges are looking for.
Its your choice to modify to factory specs or leave it as it is.
I opt to leave mine and take the deductions.
If you go to other concourse events and the judges are not familiar with the
DeLorean you will probably get away with it.
Judging is always subjective
but having a guideline takes a lot of that away.
All the items listed in your e-mail would cost points
you may still win because points for each offense are small compared to the
total but the rest of the car needs to be spotless.
Lots of rusty bolts
Just my opinion
Ken
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:46:23 -0500
From: James Espey <james@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
Regarding the recent discussions about concours, aftermarket mods
(Tankzilla, braided steel clutch lines, etc) -
The Cooncours Judging Manual located here:
http://www.delorean.com/files/handbook.pdf
Pretty much spells it out. As far as "invisible" mods like the relay
update kit, tankzilla, lockzilla, etc go, if the Judges can't see it
immediately, you probably won't get deducted. If you TELL the Judges
you have it, you'll probably get deducted. The braided steel clutch
line can be seen from underneath the car depending on how it was
installed, so it's an easy one to deduct for. The Judges do NOT look
in the relay compartment, or the fuel pump access cover so if you
have updated relays, or one of the Zilla products, as long as you
keep quiet about it, you won't get deducted.
Generally speaking, common-sense safety/reliability updates are very
minor deductions which can sometimes be offset by having the original
part (in a concours-like condition) accompanying the car during
judging (an example would be the coolant overflow bottles).
I welcome the previous Millennium concours Judges thoughts and experiences.
FYI, the next official DeLorean Concours are scheduled for EuroFest
in Belfast in May and at our Open House, June 15-17, 2001.
James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas
281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com
>In the most recent concours held in Cleavland and going by the judging
>manual created by James Espey and Steve Wynn of DMC Houston the car
>would have points deducted for every change or modifacation from "BONE
>STOCK" (including the smaller circuit breakers for the cooling fans
>and blower and old door lock module). In some other concours events
>held by other marques if you have the correct parts on the ground by
>the car or can produce documentation that the car was sold by the
>dealer that way they will accept it.Some car clubs like AACA allow any
>safety related changes like turn signals, seat belts, safety glass
>etc. As long as the owner has the origional parts and didn't cut the
>car up you can return it to stock condition. A perfect concours car
>would IMHO require all zillas which is a considerable investment plus
>new tires, header bottle, radiater, battery switch, etc to be a good
>and reliable daily driver and not just a show car.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757 2nd place Cleavland Millenium 2000 concours
>
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