dmcnews-digest Wednesday, April 22 1998 Volume 03 : Number 356
In this issue:
DML: Need info re: DMC 4x4
Re: DML: CAT Removal
Re: DML: Stainless Steel Illusion - 2nd Edition
Re: DML: K & N Filters
DML: Cooling fan problems.. Continued.
Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
DML: Owners in the Twin Cities Area, MN
DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
Re: DML: PRV V6 Power Play
Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
DML: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
Re: DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
RE: DML: PRV6 possibilities
DML: cat replacement pipe
DML: RE: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
DML: Free flow muffler?
DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: Engine Won't Idle
Re: DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
Re: DML: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: supercharged Delorean
DML: RE: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
Re: DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
Re: DML: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
Re: DML: supercharged Delorean
DML: SplitFire Plugs / Cool headlights!
Re: DML: supercharged Delorean
DML: Re: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: Catalytic Converter
DML: Daryl Tinnerstet and the Supercharged DeLorean
DML: [admin] cat talk
DML: Turbos without cats?
Re: DML: SplitFire Plugs / Cool headlights!
Re: DML: Need info re: DMC 4x4
Re: DML: Catalytic Converter
DML: List of 100
DML: RE: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
DML: Warn air deviator
Re: DML: Catalytic Converter
DML: Reasons to Leave Your Cat Alone
DML: Lambda Control System
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:21:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: toscano2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Need info re: DMC 4x4
In last October's R&T, remember that photo of the DMC on a 4x4 chassis? I
am interested in potentially purchasing it or a similarly configured
DeLorean. I attempted to contact the person who took the photo, Philip
Hatton, without success. I have not run the plate number yet but I assume
it would be expired an/or cancelled. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:27:33 EDT
From: Calducati <Calducati@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: CAT Removal
Jordan Gary wrote:
<< Mine was
already partly melted and so was adding more obstruction to the air
flow.
I >>
In reference to catalytic converters. If the catalytic converter is
melted at
any portion of the honeycomb, then there is a problem with the engine.
Either
an ignition system misfire or too much fuel running through the engine.
Catalytic converters do not melt down without a cause. The amount of
excess
back pressure caused by a melted catalytic converter can be to the point
of
causing the engine to die.
David
ASE Master Technician
California Licensed Smog Technician
Etc, etc,.....
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:34:33 -0800
From: "Ken Montgomery" <kenm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless Steel Illusion - 2nd Edition
James said:
> Response to my inquiry as to who would be interested in *buying* a copy
> of one or both of these books was very positive. As of this morning, over
> 90 people have responded, wanting to buy one or more copies of each, some
> even offered to pay in advance.
So what does everyone think this will do to the $$ value of the
original books? I've seen them advertised here for between $150-$250.
- -------------------------------------------------------
Ken Montgomery My DeLorean VIN #10911
Sacramento, CA
kenm@xxxxxxxx "When the wind gets under these wings
Operating You will feel what freedom brings"
Systems Analyst From 'On-Air' Alan Parsons
(916) 278-7646
http://www.jps.net/arkham/delorean01.htm
- -------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:17:14 EDT
From: Kayo Ong <KayoOng@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: K & N Filters
Mr. Lee Seiler,
There is a major difference physcially and it on how it works. The
difference
is like calling a Delorean a Lotus. Check out the K&N site for all
infomation. www.knfilter.com
Kayo Ong
#05508
Lic. 9D
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:40:12 -0800
From: "Ken Montgomery" <kenm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Cooling fan problems.. Continued.
This weekend I was able to get my car up on ramps and look at my
broken cooling fan. It turned out to be a lot more of a problem then I
thought. I found that the steel pin that goes through the shaft had
broken off on both sides (rusted out) so there is nothing to keep hold
of the fan. If the fan had not fallen off the shaft there's no way
to know this had happened. That would let the motor turn but not the
fan blades. It's hard to check for but I think it would be worth
doing.
I have gone through every local source I can find and found nothing
even close to the domed-fender washer sized 'E' clip that is needed to
hold on the fan. Also, I can find no way to get the motor out without
removing the fan housing. To remove the fan housing it looks like you
have to pull the radiator! What a crock! This first parts failure I
have on the car and I have to unbolt half the car to fix this tiny
little part! If the motor had the locking nuts like it shows in the
tech manual, I could at least get the bolts and use some small
wrenches to get it locked down. So, does anybody have a source for
this special 'E' clip? Would D-1 or P.J.G. carry them? It's such a
small part I expect that the credit card charges would exceed the
price of the part. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a trick
to getting at the fan? Am I asking stupid 'new DeLorean-owner'
questions.. film at 11...
- -------------------------------------------------------
Ken Montgomery My DeLorean VIN #10911
Sacramento, CA
kenm@xxxxxxxx "When the wind gets under these wings
Operating You will feel what freedom brings"
Systems Analyst From 'On-Air' Alan Parsons
(916) 278-7646
http://www.jps.net/arkham/delorean01.htm
- -------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:00:17 -0500
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
> Martin, in your first posting you wrote that remoing the CAT *apparently*
> boosted power to 170 bhp. You did not mention that the power had been
> officially measured. However I'm still skeptical about power gain through
> exhaust changes. I can believe (only just though) that 170 bhp can be
> obtained if header modifications are applied also. Nevertheless, this is
> still a BIG increase in power (30%) for a normally aspirated engine.
> Nikki Schumann
Smoothening the exhaust flow will help performance, there's no doubt about
that, but without improving the intake side of the equation the gains will
certainly be less than 40hp. I replaced my 'cat' with a turbocharger
producing 5.5 lbs boost and added a free flow muffler. I'm producing about
170hp so I seriously doubt removal of the 'cat' along with headers will be
enough to notice more than a few horse power gain.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:27:15 -0400
From: Mike Griese <magriese@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Owners in the Twin Cities Area, MN
Is Rochester close enough?
Michael A. Griese
IBM Storage Systems Division
Rochester, MN 55901
Internet: magriese@xxxxxxxxxx
voice: (507)253-1853
fax: (507)253-2880
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:55:29 EDT
From: ABatt10347 <ABatt10347@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
Fellow DMCer's;
I just recieved my copy of Bloomberg magazine (March 1998, Vol.7 No.3).
The
article ( Delorean: Stainless Style) is well worth reading! The writer
(George Mahlberg ) as a "D" owner, has nailed it right on the money! Not
only
does the article educate those who have little knowledge of our
automobile,
but also puts into words the feeling I get when driving my "D".The photo
of
the "D" coutesy of Robert Lamrock, made me want ot go start washing mine!
Thank you to the list member who posted the information about the article
in
Bloomberg. I contacted the Bloomburg magazine and told them I had heard
about
the article and wanted to buy a copy of the March issue. The person not
only
thanked me for calling but also sent me a free copy! Its good to know that
there are people like this out there in our world!
Bruce Battles
Vin# 6569
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:12:41 +0100
From: "Martin Gutkowski (UK)" <msg101@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: PRV V6 Power Play
> Jim Wrote:
> exhaust manifold variations and a little of how they rate them. The 170
> is without a cat and different ECU and ignition timing. A guy in Sweden
> once informed me that 200 HP was easy from a B280F with low restriction
> exhaust and instake, different camshaft, no cat and different ECU. This
> with total reliability. I've lost contact with him however.
*snip"
I said I'd pop into the Peugot garage down the road, and with a printout
of
Jim's page, I did exactly that today. The ECU on the Eure-spec Peugot 505
(the
one producing 170bhp) can be bought as a replacement. However, the one on
the
504 (I assume this is the same as the D - the K-Jetronic) is a mechanical
system, the other is electrical. Basically the outcome was "yes you could
convert it, possibly, maybe..." i.e. it would take a lot of time and
money -
and would it work better? The ECU alone would cost around $1650 at today's
exchange.
Also, does anyone have any LUCAS parts numbers of systems that are in your
cars that are failing and want to see if Lucas can help now? There's a
Lucas
parts store right down the road from me. (I guess they must have got
their act
together by now :-)
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:19:15 +0100
From: "Martin Gutkowski (UK)" <msg101@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
> Martin, in your first posting you wrote that remoing the CAT *apparently*
> boosted power to 170 bhp.
Spoke to Dave Howarth in the mean time and asked him. It WAS officially
tested.
Please don't shoot the messanger...
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:01:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: Massimo Troiani <maxt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
Hi all,
I've been reading the threads relating to increasing power on the D. There
have been quite a few suggestions, but no one has mentioned installing a
turbo. Is there something wrong with doing this or is it the cost? Is
there
much of a power gain in relation to cost?
I asking because I am currently looking at getting a Delorean and a turbo
one is on my short list.
Massimo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:18:23 -0500
From: steve r <stephenr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
Whats the number for Bloomberg Magazine? Im gonna have to call them and
get
that magazine too!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:25:13 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: RE: DML: PRV6 possibilities
Martin wrote :
Spoke to Dave Howarth in the mean time and asked him. It WAS officially
tested.
Well I'm convinced it's worth trying,
so does anyone have specs on the pipe to replace the cat ?
lenght, diameter, flange, is it straight ?
and how about the warm air deviator ?
(I'll start looking into that one)
Geoffroy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:03:16 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: DML: cat replacement pipe
Looking at a drawing of the cat we find:
It's a 90 degree angle
one end is flanged, the other is bolt on.
If I can get a replacement pipe made, for a reasonable price
would anybody be interested ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:05:34 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
Massimo Troiani wrote :
[snip] Is there something wrong with doing this or is it the
cost?
Nothing wrong with Turbo. But this whole thing started when I noticed
that our engine without turbo was rated a lot higher in HP in other
cars. And I was exploring why. Turbo s are quite expensive, twin turbos
even more. People on the list who have them seem quite satisfied. But if
I can get 30 HP more by simply removing the cat and warm air deviator
the cost just doesn't compare. Plus these are changes that can be undone
much quicker then a turbo. Plus (although someone stated the contrary)
better mileage usually results from removing cats, this is not the case
with turbos.
Just exploring the possibilities....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 10:57:26 -0700
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
I just received the subject named item and wondered if anyone knew an
approximate value. The only other one I have seen was at the DMC
warehosue tour last November. It's about 4x6 feet in size and shows the
famous head on three-quarters view of the DeLorean along with the words
"Presenting the DeLorean". Anyone else seen or have one?
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:43:38 -0700
From: "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Free flow muffler?
>Smoothening the exhaust flow will help performance, there's no doubt about
>that, but without improving the intake side of the equation the gains will
>certainly be less than 40hp. I replaced my 'cat' with a turbocharger
>producing 5.5 lbs boost and added a free flow muffler. I'm producing about
>170hp so I seriously doubt removal of the 'cat' along with headers will be
>enough to notice more than a few horse power gain.
>
>Bruce Benson
>
Bruce, what brand/model muffler did you get? (and where did you get it
at?)
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:13:45 -0700
From: "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
>cars. And I was exploring why. Turbo s are quite expensive, twin turbos
>even more. People on the list who have them seem quite satisfied. But if
Cost is a major factor for me.. I don't have a couple
grand to be throwing into the engine for the sole
purpose of HP. (I need to hold on to that couple
grand next time something breaks!! <g>)
>I can get 30 HP more by simply removing the cat and warm air deviator
>the cost just doesn't compare. Plus these are changes that can be undone
>much quicker then a turbo. Plus (although someone stated the contrary)
>better mileage usually results from removing cats, this is not the case
>with turbos.
My goal is to get just a little more power by increasing the
engine's efficiency. A turbo is "pushing" the engine,
causing increased wear. Intake and exhaust mods do
just the opposite, letting the engine "relax", decreasing
wear. Good spark plugs (i.e. SplitFire ) also increase
efficiency by burning fuel better, decreasing -waste-...
BTW: How easy is it to "hollow out" the Delorean's cat?
Thanks!
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:19:01 -0500
From: Dave.Sontos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Engine Won't Idle
In my previous correspondence my engine would not idle below 12-1500 RPM
and
was blowing black smoke. I had already just finished cleaning the
injectors. I
decided to get down to the basics. First I would remove the plugs and
check
compresson then test fuel pressures. I had not previously removed the
plugs
because the previous owner said he had it just tuned up. As I am removing
plugs, #3 plug I can turn with my fingers. I immediately had thoughts of
stripped threads in the head. I removed the remaining plugs and checked
the
compression. All were 170 lbs +/- 5. I bought new Bosch Platinum plugs and
found the plug gap setting of 0.028" in the book. What?? Upon checking
the old
plugs the gap was 0.100". No wonder this thing wouldn't run. Re-installed
the
new plugs, turned the key and the thing started on the first turn. Still
running rich I found the CO adjustment screw and turned it
counter-clockwise,
the engine RPM immediately picked up and the smoke stopped. Ya Hooo. I
also
set the timing. By the way, to turn the distributer I drilled a 3/8" hole
in a
30" piece of 1 x 1/8" flat stock and hooked it over the vacuum line on the
distributer. I can now move the distributer and watch the timing mark at
the
same time.
But can we make it to Cincinnatti??????
Dave
vin 2573
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:31:32 EDT
From: ROBLAMROCK <ROBLAMROCK@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: DMC article in Bloomberg magazine.
In a message dated 4/21/98 2:48:42 PM GMT, you write:
<< The photo of the "D" courtesy of Robert Lamrock, made me want to go
start
washing mine!
Thank you to the list member who posted the information about the
article
in Bloomberg. >>
I that posted the information. Here's the contact address....
Mailing Address: Shipping Address:
P.O. Box 888 100 Business Park Drive
Princeton, NJ 08542-0888 Skillman, NJ 08558
Phone: (609) 279-4602
Fax: (609) 279-7150
Best wishes,
Robert Lamrock
Belfast
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:33:51 -0400
From: Marc A Levy <malevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
There are a few Turbo kits available. I have the Island Twin Turbo
setup on my car, and am very happy with it.
The discussion is looking for alternatives.
Massimo Troiani wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been reading the threads relating to increasing power on the D. There
> have been quite a few suggestions, but no one has mentioned installing a
> turbo. Is there something wrong with doing this or is it the cost? Is
> there
> much of a power gain in relation to cost?
>
> I asking because I am currently looking at getting a Delorean and a turbo
> one is on my short list.
>
> Massimo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 15:08:03 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: supercharged Delorean
Does anyone have info on the car/owner
of that supercharged car ? I beleive it was
a 4.3 GMC engine. Thanks
- -Brandon
bsmoody@xxxxxxx
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:11:02 -0500
From: "Bixby, Web" <wbixby@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
I also have this same banner. My Uncle (who was the original owner of
my car) found this in his garage while doing some spring cleaning a
couple of years back and gave it to me. I have no idea what its value
is.
Web Bixby
VIN 1049
> ----------
> From: James Espey
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 12:57 PM
> To: DMCNews
> Subject: DML: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
>
> I just received the subject named item and wondered if anyone knew an
> approximate value. The only other one I have seen was at the DMC
> warehosue tour last November. It's about 4x6 feet in size and shows
> the
> famous head on three-quarters view of the DeLorean along with the
> words
> "Presenting the DeLorean". Anyone else seen or have one?
>
> James
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:57:37 EDT
From: Kayo Ong <KayoOng@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
Dave,
What is the Splitfire spark plugs numbers, please?
Thanks.
Kayo Ong
#05508
Lic. 9D
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:42:37 -0600
From: "Aaron Barrus" <ASBARRUS@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
One comment - if you ever DO need to pass emissions, replacement cats are
=
awfully expensive. For this reason you may want to consider a pipe =
instead. Also, a hollowed out cat is a pipe with a bulge in it, which =
creates turbulence, and decreases the effect of the constant flow of =
exhaust helping "pull" the exhaust through. Perhaps this is
extraordinaril=
y anal, but I've been told by exhaust shops that a pipe is better than a =
hollow cat.
Aaron
>>> "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 04/21 12:13 PM >>>
BTW: How easy is it to "hollow out" the Delorean's cat?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 14:53:43 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: "Presenting the DeLorean" dealership banner
> I just received the subject named item and wondered if anyone knew an
> approximate value. The only other one I have seen was at the DMC
> warehosue tour last November. It's about 4x6 feet in size and shows the
> famous head on three-quarters view of the DeLorean along with the words
> "Presenting the DeLorean". Anyone else seen or have one?
James
I have that one and the plain black "DMC" banner. I got them from
a local dealership that was the premier dealer for DMC in Kentucky.
Don't know anything about value, they gave them to me after I purchased
all of their remaining spare parts.
- -Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:40:13 +0100
From: "Martin Gutkowski (UK)" <msg101@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: PRV6 possibilities
Geoffroy Birtz wrote:
> Well I'm convinced it's worth trying,
> so does anyone have specs on the pipe to replace the cat ?
> lenght, diameter, flange, is it straight ?
>
> and how about the warm air deviator ?
> (I'll start looking into that one)
I've been waiting for the 23rd of this month when the chap who made some
for his D over here is back (the one with the 170hp). James asked me to
find out, and I'll be talking to him soon.
The Classic and Sportscar International show is on again in Birmingham on
May 2nd-4th and I'll be able to discuss things with Dave then (and this
time, I'll write what he says down:-)
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:41:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pete Cowan <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: supercharged Delorean
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Brandon S. Moody wrote:
> Does anyone have info on the car/owner
> of that supercharged car ? I beleive it was
> a 4.3 GMC engine. Thanks
if was "the guy" from Specialty Automotive in Oregon i believe. I talked
with him at length a few months ago about different power options for the
DMC. The web page that detailing the mod was done by someone else and is
since gone. I'll see if I can find the info I wrote down and his name and
number (it's plastered all over the DMC scene too).
btw, he had a turbo kit sitting around for sale too last i spoke with
him. I think he said around $2k for it. personally i'm interested in
more info about the v8 rover engine presented in the "1997" dmc
post/article.
- --pete #16059
/================+=========================+====================\
|Peter A. Cowan | Office: 607.255.8575 | 165 Hollister Hall |
| SysAdmin | Pager: 607.897.1791 | Cornell University |
|Cadif - Cornell | peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | Ithaca NY 14853 |
\================+=========================+====================/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:32:49 -0700
From: "Dave Price" <davep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: SplitFire Plugs / Cool headlights!
>Dave,
>
>What is the Splitfire spark plugs numbers, please?
>Thanks.
>
>Kayo Ong
>#05508
>Lic. 9D
>
The SplitFire plug number is: SF10B .. I asked about their twin-core
wires
and SplitFire3 plugs, but they said they had no plans on producing those
products for our engines... :(
On a side note, I was surfing the web, and found some pretty cool sealed
beam headlight replacements.. It's from Philips called "Color Clear" They
are opaque black/blue/red/white when off, but as soon as you turn them on
they turn clear, to let the light out. Perfectly legal, meets/exceeds DOT
standards, etc... and they make 'em in our size!! Philips gave me two
places to buy from:
Keystone Automotive Warehouse 800-233-8321
JC Whitney 512-431-6102
They're not too cheap, I think somewhere around $20 each ($80 to re-do a
D...) but I'm sure the black ones would be pretty slick.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:10:06 EDT
From: DMC3309 <DMC3309@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: supercharged Delorean
In regards to the question about the super charged Delorean. The owner
is or
was Darryl Tinnerstet. I don't know if he still owns it. He use to own or
still does own a company called Speciality Automotive which sells Delorean
parts. I have purchased parts from Darryl in the past but not since
1996.
Sometimes you call him and he is in business and sometimes he's not. I
believe he still advertise in Hemmings motor news
Robert
VIN 3309
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:19:37 -0500
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Re: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
> My goal is to get just a little more power by increasing the
> engine's efficiency. A turbo is "pushing" the engine,
> causing increased wear. Intake and exhaust mods do
> just the opposite, letting the engine "relax", decreasing
> wear. Good spark plugs (i.e. SplitFire ) also increase
> efficiency by burning fuel better, decreasing -waste-...
>Bruce, what brand/model muffler did you get? (and where did you get it
>at?)
> Thanks!
> Dave
Actually a turbo producing moderate boost, say 5 to 7 lbs. boost, isn't
'pushing' the engine. Streetable engines from the DeLorean's era aren't
the
most efficient things around. To use valve sizes and valve train timing
that results in an engine with good manners while puttering around town
means that they lack
efficiency at higher speeds. If you did permanent mechanical changes, say
larger valves and more radical valve timing and so on, for more efficient
high rpm
performance, you would have an engine that would tend to be over loaded at
low speeds. Modern engines have used electronics to a great degree to span
the gap between low and high speed performance. The DeLorean engine is a
couple of generations behind that technology. Using a turbo to push a
little more into the engine to overcome those inefficiencys doesn't hurt
but having that capability means the temptation to drive a bit harder can
increase engine wear. It's the driving style that come with the fun of
coming on boost that may increase the wear factor but if the car is driven
sensibly there's no
reason a turbo should harm the engine if all is set up properly. By that I
mean if steps are taken to eliminate things like pre-ignition which is a
by-product of both turbo or supercharging.
Regarding free flowing exhaust systems, any muffler shop stocks straight
through glass pack type muffler blanks in a variety of lengths. A little
imagination can produce a very nice system. Without a picture it's a bit
hard to discribe what I did when my car was without the turbo but I'll
try.
I ran a 2 1/2" pipe from the 'cat' to the center of the engine, at the
crankshaft pully. There I turned it down 90 degrees to a short pipe
running
side to side, forming a 'T' shaped pipe. On each end of that pipe I
installed a short 12" straight through muffler blank. At the outside ends
of the mufflers I put a 90 degree tail pipe going where the stock
tailpipes
exit the rear of the car. Most shops stock stainless pipe and at least
have
access to stainless muffler blanks. It really isn't too expensive to have
them fab something like this up.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:04:17 -0700
From: acasad@xxxxxxxx
Subject: DML: Catalytic Converter
To all those who are considering removing their catalytic converter:
I understand how important high performance is to you and to your
vehicle, it is to me too, but there are some things you should know
about the catalytic converter before you remove it from your car.
1. The mechanical end of things: If you remove the catalytic
converter from your exhaust system, you are effectively disabling the
entire oxygen feedback system. When you do that, you are disabling the
engine's capability to respond to changes, in order to be the most
efficient. By doing this you are making the car less powerful at
certain times, when the engine would have been able to compensate for
the changes. Also, the other components that are connected to the
oxygen feedback system are likely to have problems and could even go so
far as to foul up your injection system. I have never tried it, so I
don't know, I am merely telling you what might happen, on a purely
theoretical basis. I'm sure someone out there can either refute this or
back this up, with actual first hand experience. Additionally, you are
causing your car to consume a greater amount of fuel, which, especially
if you are from San Diego, as I am, that is a BIG mistake to one's
pocketbook.
2. The chemical end of things: You catalytic converter, and all
catalytic converters, are composed of a fine alumina (aluminum oxide)
grid electroplated with platinum, rhodium and, often times, other noble
metals. Yes, this grip does restrict the flow of exhaust from your
engine, but the engine was designed with that in mind. More
importantly, the catalytic converter oxidizes unburned hydrocarbons
(ethane, methane, octane) and a poisonous gas, Carbon Monoxide (CO) to
carbon dioxide and water vapor. Granted carbon dioxide is not a
wonderful creation, but it is a LOT better than carbon monoxide.
Additionally, Nitrogen monoxide (the brown stuff in smog, that also has
a pretty nasty smell) and Nitrogen dioxide are converted to Nitrogen gas
(which composes about 70% of our atmosphere) and Oxygen gas (more for
our cars to burn and our lungs to breathe!!!). By the way, nitrogen
dioxide is an ozone producer, although it produces ozone in the lower
atmosphere, where it is not capable of blocking UV rays and serves as an
oxidant and poison.
3. The legal end of things: It is illegal to remove a catalytic
converter, or alter any other emissions system components, in most
states and by Federal regulations, in some cases.
The bottom line: there are other ways to get more power, try them,
PLEASE, some of us like to breathe, hate brown air, don't enjoy skin and
lung cancer and want to be around long enough to drive our Ds!
Keep this stuff in mind -- thanks guys!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 19:34:35 -0700
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Daryl Tinnerstet and the Supercharged DeLorean
Daryl Tinnerstet is the builder/owner of the supercharged DeLorean. His
phone number - (360) 786-0243.
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 19:39:02 -0700
From: James Espey <espey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: [admin] cat talk
Very shortly now the cat talk will cease to be posted to the DeLorean
Mailing List. The thread is getting stale, and the improvements are a bit
dubious, as weel as illegal in most areas. I encourage those of you
interested in this to discuss it amongst yourselves.
James Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:19:48 -0500
From: "C. Longwisch" <CL1954@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Turbos without cats?
The turbo setups I have seen have the catalytic converter removed. Has
anyone with this setup had an emission test and passed? Is the DeLorean
exhaust "clean" enough without the CAT to pass without a turbo? I would
be
interested in responses from anyone in states such as Illinois and
California that might have actual experience and not speculation. Remember
that these cars do not have to pass today's standards and the CAT was a
new
technology then.
Cecil Longwisch
DMC1982
VIN# 10663
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:50:18 -0400
From: Finger ME! <dan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: SplitFire Plugs / Cool headlights!
On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 03:32:49PM -0700, Dave Price wrote:
> beam headlight replacements.. It's from Philips called "Color Clear" They
> are opaque black/blue/red/white when off, but as soon as you turn them on
> they turn clear, to let the light out. Perfectly legal, meets/exceeds DOT
> standards, etc... and they make 'em in our size!! Philips gave me two
> places to buy from:
They are only availible in 5X7. DMCs use 4X6. A good replacement is made
by Hella, for $40 each. They use H4 replaceable filaments, which are much
brighter than the standard replaceable 9004 filaments. The generic H4 4X6
replacements sold by JC Whitney are not even close to the qualilty of the
Hellas.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:53:26 -0400
From: Vicki Miller <"1000mil@xxxxxxx"@gte.net>
Subject: Re: DML: Need info re: DMC 4x4
toscano2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> In last October's R&T, remember that photo of the DMC on a 4x4 chassis? I
> am interested in potentially purchasing it or a similarly configured
> DeLorean. I attempted to contact the person who took the photo, Philip
> Hatton, without success. I have not run the plate number yet but I assume
> it would be expired an/or cancelled. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.I am
having trouble emailing you at your address...comes back user
unknown please contact me and i can give you the information you
requested......
bob
919-383-6187
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 22:53:24 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody" <bsmoody@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: DML: Catalytic Converter
> 1. The mechanical end of things: If you remove the catalytic
> converter from your exhaust system, you are effectively disabling the
> entire oxygen feedback system. When you do that, you are disabling the
> etc...............
I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing, but just curious. The O2 sensor in the
delorean exhaust system is upstream of the cat. I would think that
removing
the cat would not have any effect on the oxygen level. The delorean has
no EGR system so after the cat, then the exhaust just exits to the
muffler.
I'm just trying to understand ? Am I wrong or not ?
- -Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:50:35 -0700
From: "lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lseiler@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: List of 100
To all DML (Delorean Mailing List) members:
This is for all the DML members who are interested in the limited edition
model DMC-12 Kits being created my me.
The "List of 100" is confirmed so far as I can determine, if you believe
you are on it and have received an up-date in the last week then you are
on
the list and will remain there. If you have prepaid for your kit you will
be receiving a number of items by US mail in the next week or so depending
on your mail service from California.* The items are currently going out
in
the mail day by day all this week.
Over 500 DML members have asked that their names be placed on the waiting
list. as I can confirm e-mail address these members will start to receive
the up-dates. I have hired an out side accounting firm to track all
payments and to ensure that no one pre paying gets "LOST". If you are
interested in being on this list you can get on it by simply making a
request by e-mail direct to me. I am setting up a new Internet site that
will have a limited edition page for the Kit. I will announce the URL when
the page is up and ready. You can also e-mail me there now at
>lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<. Although a waiting list of 500 may seam a bit
long, 16 waiting list members have gotten on the List of 100 so far.
If you are on the List of 100 and have a question please remember to use
your reservation number, it makes it easier for me to find you on the
list.
About the 3D Iron-On T-shirts:
I have over 200+ request for these. I am waiting to get a reaction from
the
first 25 that are going out now before making any commitment. It is my
hope
that the DML members who receive these will make comments to the news
letter with their candid opinions. At this point I am interested in
finding
out if my particular humor is something that would be welcomed in the DMC
community. If not, well it would be no surprise, my humor is twisted at
best, if on the other hand if it is well received I might be able to
provide some commix relief now and again.
* Curtsey Kit recipients will receive the T-shirt Iron-On and Certificate
w/Gold seal after all paying list members.
Lee Seiler
81DMC-12
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:55:46 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: DML: RE: Re: PRV6 Possiblities - turbo?
> ----------
> From: Aaron Barrus[SMTP:ASBARRUS@xxxxxxxxxx]
[snip]. Perhaps this is extraordinarily anal, but I've been
told by exhaust shops that a pipe is better than a hollow cat.
> Aaron
>
Not anal, just correct ! In fact air flow mechanics have vevy simple
rules.
Straight round smoth pipes.
anything else will impede the flow somehow, things like curves, ( still
much better than angles) corragated (or rippled ) texture like flexi
hose, lenght. Any thing that causes friction, basicly.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:44:59 -0400
From: Geoffroy Birtz <gbirtz@xxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Warn air deviator
Took mine off last night. It turn out a very good thing. The flex hose
that goes from the intake to the deviator ( not the smaller one that is
the hot air intake) is made up of two layers. The inner layer of mine
had "caved in" and was obstructing the air flow in a major way. My car
sometimes sputered at lower revs, no more !
Right now the intake is sucking from the engine comportment. All that is
required is a piece of flex hose the same size (very odd size ! 2 7/8" !
) as the one that had collapsed.
Stay tuned....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:07:25 +0000
From: ausmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: DML: Catalytic Converter
(snip)
> 1. The mechanical end of things: If you remove the catalytic
> converter from your exhaust system, you are effectively disabling the
> entire oxygen feedback system. When you do that, you are disabling the
> engine's capability to respond to changes, in order to be the most
> efficient. By doing this you are making the car less powerful at
> certain times, when the engine would have been able to compensate for
> the changes. Also, the other components that are connected to the
> oxygen feedback system are likely to have problems and could even go so
> far as to foul up your injection system.
BS. The O2 sensor is mounted upstream of the CAT. All your computer
controlled feeds should continue to work as before removal. It's
still illegal to do though.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:27:18 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <SUBSTEM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: DML: Reasons to Leave Your Cat Alone
I want to briefly mention something before James stops posting the
catalytic converter messages.
In Cleveland my car must pass emission checks regularly. Experience
shows that every year in Ohio various emissions inspections are
expanded to include *more* areas, not fewer. This may have two
serious negative consequences to anyone who disables their catalytic
converter system:
1) Even if you do not need to pass an emissions inspection now, you
probably will in the future.
2) As emissions inspections expand, the number of potential buyers
who will want a car with tampered emission systems will get smaller
every year. Thus the minute you tamper with your converters you
immediately reduce the value of your car by eliminating buyers like me.
- - Mike Substelny
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:17:41 -0500
From: scottmueller@xxxxxxxxx (Scott Mueller)
Subject: DML: Lambda Control System
Turn to page 160 in your manuals. Starting there you will see a diagram
that shows the "Lambda Control System". Please note that the Oxygen
Sensor is between the engine and the three way catalyst.
Turn to page 151 in your manual.
Basic Function
The DeLorean uses a Lambda control system developed by Bosch. The
Lambda system is used in conjunction with the K-Jetronic fuel injection
and a three-way catalytic convertor to control exhaust emissions.
Lambda control, used with three-way catalytic convertor, is capable of
reducing noxious emissions of carbon monoxide (CO), hydrocarbons (CH)
and nitrogen oxides (NOx). A requirement for this action however, is
that the fuel-air ratio must be controlled to a high degree of accuracy
so that the engine will operate within an "ideal" air-fuel mixture
range.
Lambda Control Principle
The control principle employed is based on the fact that the Lambda
sensor is continuosly monitoring the exhaust gas (between the engine and
catalyst) and informing the fuel injection system to modify the mixture
for minimum emissions.
Acting as a monitoring device, the oxygen sensor in the exhaust pipe
provides data on wether the mixture is richer or leaner than the
"ideal".
The lambda electronic control unit (ECU) processses this data and sends
a signal to the fuel injection system to change the amount of fuel
injected into the engine.
If you finish reading this section of your manual, you will learn how
all of the components interact with each other.
Some points to consider.
1. Removing emissions control devices or modifying them will put your
car in violation of Federal and State laws. Wether or not you get
caught is another issue.
2. Removing the catalytic convertor will not alter how the Lambda
system operates. The Lambda will continue to try and operate the engine
as close to the "idea" air-fuel ratio which gives you the best economy
and cleanest emisssions. The catalytic convertor is just an additional
step in the cleaning process.
3. Hollowing out the catalytic convertor will create turbulance in the
exhaust system and likely cause increased back pressure in the exhaust
system, thereby reducing the effiency of the engine.
4. Check and make sure that your full throttle enrichment switch is
operating correctly. When this switch closes the ECU sends a signal to
the frequency valve requesting a richer mixture, therefore more power
from the engine.
Hopefully this information from the "DeLorean Technical Owners
Guide/Parts Manual" has clarified the "Cat Removal Thread".
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #356
*****************************
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of the DELOREAN MAILING LIST, to realize that nothing should be taken as
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