RE: [DMCForum] Re: The Constitution Is an Illusion Part II

["Dave Stragand" <dave.stragand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Speaking of the numbers game, here's another one along the same lines I
wrote a few years ago. It has a life of its own, as I've actually had it
forwarded back to me several times: 

-Dave

Tax Cuts for the Rich?

Thanks to fuzzy math, the Democrats can always say that the rich would be
getting more. Let's use an example: 

Someone who makes $25,000 per year, and currently pays $2,500 a year in
taxes pays 10%. Let's cut that in half, and say they pay 5%, or $1250. 

Now take someone who makes $1,000,000 per year pays 50%, or $500,000. Give
them only a 0.5% tax cut (49.5%), and they would pay $495,000. 

Liberals would complain that the 'rich' person will still 'make' FOUR TIMES
the 'poor' person's cut. And that's with the 'poor' person's cut being 50%
and the 'rich' person's cut being only ONE-HALF of ONE PERCENT! 

Look again in this example, and you see that the 'poor' person would pay
only 5%, while the 'rich' person would still pay nearly half his/her salary,
yet the liberals would still have the audacity to claim the cut is unfair,
and skewed towards the wealthy. Unbelievable!!! 

-----Original Message-----
From: mike clemens [mailto:rmclemns@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 PM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Re: The Constitution Is an Illusion Part II


Bob,

I question you math, but then again, I don't have
bunch of capital letters after my name, so maybe you
can clarify.  Using your own numbers, you say it takes
$35,000 a year per inmate, or $17.50 an hour, this
being "crux" of your argument.  Incarcerated people
are under lockup 24 hours a day for 365 days a year,
which works out to 8760 hours for a year (leap year
not included).  If my math is correct, that works out
to $3.99+ an hour, not the $17.50 figure you quoted. 
Can you explain??

By the way,  "someone" (in the context you used it) is
one word, not two.

Regards.

Mike
--- Bob Brandys <BobB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Ryan,
> 
> Your responses to the concept of a living wage and
> national health care 
> are humorous.  Unfortunately,  none of the responses
> are based in 
> economic fact or public health research.    
> 
> The United states has more than twice as many people
> per capita in jail 
> THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. !!
> 
> WHY IS THIS?  DO United STATES Citizens commit TWICE
> as much crime as 
> other countries?  That is highly  unlikely.
> 
> There are numerous published economic studies since
> the 1920's that have 
> shown that as you increase the economic status of
> people with real 
> living wage jobs CRIME DOES DOWN.    You should do
> some reading in this 
> area, it is very enlightening.  I studied this area
> while getting my 
> Masters Degree in Public Health.  DO you have one?
> 
> Do you have any training in the area of public
> health and social policy. 
>  Or do you just repeat the political BULL SHIT you
> heard from the 
> conservative media.  
> 
> The average cost of keeping some one in jail in the
> United States is 
> $35,000  per year.  Well, that works out to about to
> $17.50 per hour.  
> 
> Well, do you think these people would have committed
> their crimes IF 
> THEY WERE MAKING THAT MUCH PER HOUR?
> 
> Actually, by jailing over 1,000,000 more people per
> capita than any 
> other country in the world, THE UNITED STATES HIDES
> OVER 1% of its 
> unemployment problem.  
> 
> YES,  HIDING THESE UNEMPLOYED IN JAILS IS
> POLITICALLY A GAME.  That WE 
> Taxpayer pay 60 BILLION dollar a year for AND GET
> NOTHING IN RETURN.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE EFFECT WOULD BE ON OUR
> ECONOMY IF THESE 1 
> MILLION PEOPLE HAD $35,000 A YEAR JOBS.  IT WOULD BE
> THE BIGGEST BOOM IN 
> OUR ECONOMY IN 30 YEARS!!!
> 
> Ryan,  know anything about Macroeconomic theory. 
> THis issue of hiding 
> the unemployed is also discussed in text books on
> this subject.  
> 
> 
> AS FOR NATIONAL HEALTH CARE again being a PUBLIC
> HEALTH EXPERT, I am 
> fully informed in this area.  
> 
> Are you aware that the United States spends 4 times
> as much per capita 
> on health AS ALL OF THE OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED
> COUNTRIES   AND HERE IS THE 
> IMPORTANT FACT  -  WE DO NOT LIVE ANY LONGER AND WE
> ARE NOT ANY 
> HEALTHIER.   IN FACT, WE HAVE MORE HEART DISEASE,
> CANCER AND DIABETES.  
> 
> The latest study on the Height of the US children
> compared to European 
> children has shown a very alarming trend.  US
> children, for the FIRST 
> time in over 200 years, are SHORTER than their
> parents.   A very scary 
> and worrisome public health trend.  On the other
> hand,  the average 
> height of children in Europe is still greater than
> their parents.  The 
> main difference is the terrible american diet  that
> our kids consume.   
> What does this mean for the future of our children.?
>  Most likely more 
> disease and a shorter life span.
> 
> Even though the US spends 4 times as much money per
> person, the health 
> care system does not cover some 40,000,000
> americans.   So overall the 
> actual dollars spent per insured american is even
> higher.  What this 
> means is that the profit made under the current
> health care system is so 
> great, that it is very unlikely the US will ever
> have national health 
> care.  
> 
> Here are some facts you should consider.   In
> countries that have 
> national health care, they have establish treatment
> for each disease 
> that are scientifically proven to cure those
> diseases.    A review of 
> the US health delivery last year, showed that only
> 30% of the time do 
> people in the US get the proper treatment for there
> disease. 70% of the 
> time the doctor gives the wrong treatment and
> actually make the patient 
> sicker requiring more medical expenses. (there was
> wall Street Journal 
> article on this) .
> 
> Here is another economic fact on the US health care
> system.  25% of US 
> health care dollars are spent on paper work.
> processed by insurance 
> companies and then more papers to patients for stuff
> that was not 
> covered and then more papers for doctors to fill out
> and more papers for 
> druggist to fill out etc. etc.   YES 25% of health
> care dollars are just 
> wasted on pushing papers.  
> 
> LASTLY,  EVER WORKED FOR A PHARMACEUTICAL OR MEDICAL
> DEVICE COMPANY? 
>  EVER SERVED ON ANY HEALTH CARE COMMITTEES IN
> WASHINGTON .  I HAVE.
> 
> Why does the US spend so much on drugs.?  HERE IS
> HOW IT WORKS.  Each 
> drug company has a sales person that works a
> specific territory.  the 
> average salary of the drug sales people is $200,000
> per year.   In 
> addition, drug companies spend millions of dollars
> on free seminars and 
> trips for doctor that add 15% to the cost of all
> drugs.
> Adding the sales people salaries to the free trips
> and benies for doctor 
> adds almost 40% to the cost of every pill.
> 
> Here is how is works under national health care. 
> THere is a 
> governmental body known as a national formulary. 
> The national formulary 
> meets with the drug companies and asks what drugs do
> you have that are 
> proven to work for a specific disease.  They then
> purchase those drugs 
> for those diseases and make the drugs available to
> doctors under the 
> standard treatment protocols.  NO SALES COST.  NO
> FREE TRIPS A savings 
> of 40%.  There is even a bigger cost saving because
> of the bulk purchase 
> agreement.
> 
> Now the really scary part of the US health care
> system. !!!   Over 60% 
> of prescribed drugs in the US are for "off label
> use".  (See WSJ 
> article).  What does this mean?
> It means doctors in the US are free to prescribe
> drugs for uses THAT ARE 
> NOT SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN TO DO ANY GOOD WHAT SO
> EVER.  In many cases 
> these "off label" prescription cause adverse
> reactions and kill people. 
>  IT is estimated that 80,000 people die in the US
> per year from adverse 
> reactions and improper drug prescriptions.
> 
> So RYAN, I would suggest you do some REAL HARD CORE
> RESEARCH AND EDUCATE 
> YOURSELF on the true medical facts that PUBLIC
> HEALTH PROFESSIONALS know 
> in this country.
> 
> NOT RIGHT WING, NOT LEFT WING,  JUST INFORMED AS TO
> THE REAL FACTS.
> 
> Bob,  PhD, MPH, PE, CSP, CIH,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



            
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