RE: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime

["Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mike, can we please keep the majority of posting on ?The DeLorean?
newsgroup?DeLorean related. Please vent your spleen elsewhere. 
 
Best regards
Chris Parnham
DOC 2
RHD  vin 5638
RHD  vin 12173
BTTF vin 20049 
-----Original Message-----
From: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Mike Sumner
Sent: 02 September 2005 22:27
To: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime
 
I can appreciate your argument as you have mechanical foundation to it
rather than the usual blind passion.

As far as modern French cars are concerned, it's actually because I've
driven loads of them recently (had to deliver them as they were hire
cars) that I've made this point.  I've driven about 20 brand new Lagunas
with both petrol and diesel engines and also a load of Clios.  My take
on the built quality and feel of both cars was that if this is what they
have to offer in 2005, what must they have been like in years gone by.

Still, until Brussels takes away our liberty completely and makes us all
drive the same cars we are permitted to choose, and at leats if this
list stays on the topic of DeLoreans we know we have all pledged out
allegiance to the marque and these debates will not break out.

Regards,

Mike Sumner - 178
1999 BMW E36 Coupe


Martin Gutkowski <martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mike Sumner wrote:

> I saw one at a motor showwhen they'd just come out and had a sit in it

> and I was frankly appauled by the fact that when the door is shut with

> the window down you can hear the glass rattle inside the frame.  

Hey, my DeLorean does that! Perhaps what you saw at the show was a true 
prototype.

> Perhaps one day the French will learn how to build cars properly that 
> don't have gearboxes that feel like a ruler in some porridge, steering

> with no feel that's over-assisted, and doors that clang when closed.

When was the last time you actually drove a modern French car?

I've owned and driven Citroens since day one when I passed my test. I 
will not try and defend the raliability of the earlier hydro-pneumatic 
systems because my old BX was forever going wrong. However the later 
H-reg one we bought for £100 has so far done 12,000 miles and has only 
needed service items to keep it going. It has electric everything 
(pretty much for a car of its age and price range) and everything, bar a

couple of dash bulbs, still works perfectly. Oh and the clock 
illumination needs thumping now and again!

What I won't hear of is anyone poking at the Xantia. The later facelift 
models are stonkingly good cars. I guarantee, without hesitation, that 
my Xantia  would outshine your BMW on a twisty track - and it's a 
diesel. The Xantia Activa takes more lateral G before letting go than a 
Testarossa. The build quality of my Xantia is good, FWIW - nothing's 
gone wrong yet in the interior at 140,000 mile and counting - well OK 
the robot left its mark on the boot but I -am- impressed with Citroen's 
ability to spot likely "easy-damagable" parts and make them cheap and 
easy to replace. The corner secions on the bumpers for example. I got 
stuffed up the back by an MX5. His bill was £800. mine was a new corner 
section on the bumper for £23. I'm more than happy with it, and I'm sure

-some- people on this list will tell you everything bad about BMW's.

So in short, don't tar all French cars with the same brush. Just like I 
wouldn't say all BMW's are crap because of the X3. A guy at work bought 
a BWM 320d while I was there and we went out to compare my Xantia with 
his BM. Apart from cruise control (pointless in a diesel IMO) Mine had 
everything the BM did and a lot more besides for £5k les money. The 
engine was a lot less refined too, still being indirect injection with a

laggy turbo.

One thing's for sure - you don't get many people muttering "bloody 
Citroen/ Renault/ Peugeot drivers" under their breath when yet another 
rep-mobile cuts them up on the motorway. That rep-mobile usually has a 
black, blue and white badge you see.

> As for German Ubersaloons.  Do you not think there's an extremely good

> reason why people in this country like to buy them?  Because they are 
> subtly stylish as opposed to having angular, hacked at body shapes.  
> The French can try all they like but they will never topple the German

> dominated executive saloon market until their product is up to
scratch.

This simple truth is that Peugeot/ Renault /Citroen have never achieved 
the snob value of the BMW or Audi badge in this country. Once apon a 
time it was justified. Now not so but a person is clever, people are 
stupid. Look across continental qurope and the story's quite different.

>
> Remember the Renault Safrane?  What a success that was against the 3 
> series.

Was it aimed at the 3 series? It's feckin huge - more like a 5 or a 7, 
but let me guess, it was up for 3 series money. Doesn't that mean that 
you could add "overpriced" to anything built in Germany? The Saf 
does/did suffer from electrical faults and overpriced parts, but mark my

words - it will be a future classic. It's quite the most roomy 
comfortable car I've ever driven, all the toys and leather on par with a

modern car, except sat-nav, for a car built in 1993. Now if I can just 
fix the air suspension (pump's gone), and driver's seat (memory brain's 
gone), it'll make an excellent courtesy car, having been bought for the 
princely sum of £205. And when it does die, the engine will be recycled 
with a dirty great big turbo and put in a DeLorean. Perhaps when you've 
got yours one day and bring it in for a service, you can drive it home.

Martin
DMC Ltd
#1458
#4426
91 Citroen BX TZD Turbo
99 Xantia HDi Exclusive
94 Renault Safrane RXE V6 Executive


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