Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans

[Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins@xxxxxxxxx>]

Are owners who run "open loop" or EFI at richer than stoich also subject to
"fines exceeding $10k" from the EPA?

Farrar Hudkins
#2613

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, DarkStar Media
<darkstarmedia@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I believe a properly tuned carb won't kill the cat right away but it can
> shorten the life of the cat... I'd personally like to see the data either
> way.
>
> But...
>
> How would you ever know if the cats stop working? The carburated cars will
> not pass smog anyway.
> I will also mention that the swap you do violates epa laws (ie it is not
> legall). I imagine that the cars you do this on are in areas that do not
> have emissions testing.... It's still not legal. Unless you have put your
> conversion through CARB OE certification...
>
> Do you inform these people that there could be fines exceeding $10k?
>
> Do you realize the position you put your self in if you are reported to the
> epa and they bother to investigate?
>
> Richard
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of
> content22207
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:30 AM
> To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
>
> Farrar Hudkins -- the one who started the carburetion craze -- has been
> running his carb with catalytic converters (he has two of them) since 2008.
> John Marconi has been running his carb with a stock converter since 2009.
> Bob Babcock has been running his carb with a stock converter since 2010. I
> believe Garen Martens and Virgil Poole both have stock converters, but I
> haven't seen their cars in person to verify that.
>
> No, I am not worried.
>
> You certainly are worried. Since both Farrar and John read the DML, why
> don't you send them each an eMail message to that effect? They have been
> running carb conversions the longest (#1 2008 and #2 2009), so your warning
> is long overdue.
>
> If I send send them an eMail, it will read something like "glad your carb
> is
> still working well all these years later, especially in conjunction with
> your exhaust system," which just won't have the same effect.
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
>
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Martin
>
> Gutkowski" <martin@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm concerned for the person who decides to fit one of your conversions
> and kills their working catalyst with potentially dangerous results!
> >
> > Why aren't you?
> >
> > Because "you haven't seen a problem yet"?
> >
> > That is a poor poor position to take.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerryR
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "content22207" <brobertson@...>
> > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:03:03
> > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> >
> > Until someone reports a problem, I am going to continue to make what I
> have been making as I have been making them.
> >
> > I certainly am not going to stop making carb conversions simply because
> you now claim, four years later, that they will not work.
> >
> > Real world experience has you trumped on this one.
> >
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> >
> >
> > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>
> "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So are you going to stop promoting your carb conversion as suitable for
> cat-equipped engines, or will you continue with the "celestial teapot"
> approach?
> > >
> > > The issue of 3 way catalysts requiring a stochiometric mixture is FACT.
> Your "empirical" data is flawed.
> > >
> > > I also suggest you look up the definition of the word "theory"
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > Sent from my BlackBerryR
>
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:32:45
> > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > >
> > > I know this frustrates you, but I simply can not respond to a problem
> that hasn't been reported. Until an owner reports a problem, there is
> nothing for me to respond to.
> > >
> > > You are reporting a problem, but you do not have one of my conversions.
> The problem you report exists only in your head (insofar as it is directly
> connected to my conversions -- your problem is theoretical, not empirical).
> > >
> > > I promise: as soon as an owner reports a problem, I will let you know.
> Until then both of us are going to have to patiently wait.
> > >
> > > Bill Robertson
> > > #5939
> > >
> > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>
> "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How about hooking up a new catalyst to one of your carb equipped
> engines and see if you GET a problem... I'd have thought you'd love to be
> able to promote your setup to all owners!
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my BlackBerryR
>
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:36:59
> > > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > > >
> > > > As soon as an owner reports a problem, I will let you know.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > #5939
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>
> "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill, 3 way catalysts can't survive being connected to an engine
> that isn't fuelling at stochiometry for the majority of time. This isn't
> theory, it's well understood cast iron chemical fact!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your tiny sample of owners include many with fuel delivery problems
> to begin with, right? I'd put money on their cats being knackered before
> you
> went anywhere near the car. I've seen what happens when a non-lambda k-jet
> system is hooked up to a working stock catalyst so I'm talking from
> experience as well as education.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your "nah nah nah I can't hear you" routine on this subject just
> goes to show how limited your knowledge really is as well as your
> stubbornness that Marc alluded to before..
> > > > >
> > > > > Martin
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my BlackBerryR
>
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:00:16
> > > > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [DML] Why Owners Carburete Their DeLoreans
> > > > >
> > > > > Not a single owner with a stock exhaust system has reported any
> problems with the OEM converter, so my conversions appear to be compatible
> with 3 way catalyst. You can argue the point theoretically all you want --
> real world use has not revealed any problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is nothing preventing an owner from dyno or gas analyzer
> tuning his carb. Allstate Carburetor (www.allcarbs.com) sells Motorcraft
> jets in every size available (eBay jet sizes are hit & miss). Also, if any
> owner wants to use a venturi size other than 1.08", Autolite castings have
> many more size options than Motorcraft (bear in mind that Autolite 2100's
> have twitchy choke pulloffs, and there isn't any easy way to put a
> Motorcraft pulloff on an Autolite casting). Owners seem happy with the
> castings and jets I provide, however subjective that happiness may in fact
> be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know it frustrates your theoretical arguments, but real world
> experience is all I have to offer. Catalytic converters simply are not
> melting -- sorry. Apparently the only way I can make them melt is to jet
> the
> carbs far richer than I do. Also, owners are reporting good fuel economy
> and
> performance. You can call them delusional or liars if you want -- I'm just
> happy that they are happy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Correction to my original post: 2 owners wanted partial
> conversions,
> not complete conversions. Everyone else has requested the full monty.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > > #5939
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> ,
>
> Martin Gutkowski <martin@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...so you aren't going to answer the points about accurate AFR
> > > > > > and the incompatibility with a 3-way catalyst?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fine, you make a bolt-on fuel delivery system, we get that. Well
> done.
> > > > > > Stop trying to sell it as something it isn't and we'll stop
> > > > > > criticising you for trying. Marc put it best in his last
> > > > > > email, you keep advertising it as solving problems you alone are
> finding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 12/04/2012 20:00, content22207 wrote:
> > > > > > > While each owner who carbureted his DeLorean had reasons to do
> so unique to himself (ask nicely and any of them likely will tell you what
> those reasons were), I think it is safe to say that not a single one of
> them
> wanted to design and fabricate a new induction system from the ground up.
> They wanted a bolt on, turn key replacement that would work reliably from
> the first key turn onward. That is what I make. Arguments that these owners
> should have designed and built their own induction systems (of whatever
> ilk)
> probably ring hollow in their ears. That other owners have done so is
> irrelevant -- people who come to me are looking for a complete conversion
> in
> a single box, a "kit" if you will.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > > > > #5939
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please
> address:
> > > > > moderators@
> > > > >
> > > > > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> > > > > www.dmcnews.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > > > moderators@
> > > >
> > > > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> > > > www.dmcnews.com
> > > >
> > > > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > > moderators@
> > >
> > > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> > > www.dmcnews.com
> > >
> > > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > moderators@...
> >
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> > www.dmcnews.com
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Sent from my laser-guided nuclear-powered refrigerator, operated by its
crew of hyperintelligent pandimensional cyborg kittens, controlled remotely
via telekinetic sonic screwdriver.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnewsYahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    dmcnews-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    dmcnews-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    dmcnews-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/