[DML] Michael Griese And Other DML Moderators' Contact (email) Info Request

["Josh Quellhorst" <jaq78@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Would someone please share with me Michael Griese and any other DML 
moderator's contact info (email) so I may talk to them off of the DML?

Thanks!

JQ


--------------------------------------------------
From: "content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:59 PM
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [DML] Rob Grady's Personal Lower Suspension

> I haven't hijacked a damn thing. Go back and look at the history.
>
> In late October I combined Ed's brackets and Byrnes LCA's, and posted a 
> message to that effect. I mistakenly thought then that I was the first 
> owner to do so, but readily concede now that Luke Sandel did the same 
> thing more than a year ago.
>
> Several owners objected to my upgrade, under grounds that the original 
> suspension is fine. I disagreed, and the discussion did drift towards 
> whether Lotus gave DMC its best or not, but even that died out.
>
> In fact there were no posts on the subject for more than a week.
>
> Then an owner pointed me to pics of Rob Grady's front suspension, which is 
> much closer to a lower wishbone than even mine. I reposted those pics for 
> group benefit (that was the first time I ever saw Rob's suspension, and I 
> found it quite interesting). Then all Hell broke loose. David and Kayo 
> have accused me of insurance fraud. They have repeatedly brought up my 
> choice of fuel delivery, for what purpose I do not know. They have called 
> me "backyard" and "shade tree" and "Rube Goldberg" (for merely bolting on 
> ready made products that have been on the market for years?).
>
> And somehow I am the bad person here?
>
> KMA. I am a very satisfied DMC and Heninger & Associates customer. I think 
> the quality of their products, especially when used together, is worthy of 
> endorsement. I am not trying to defraud anyone. I am not trying to 
> backyard engineer anything beyond a couple of extra washers. I have not 
> said a single word about my choice of fuel delivery. Yet I am supposed to 
> be the bad guy. Truly bizarre.
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
>
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Cameron, Peter" <cameron@...> wrote:
>>
>> I think many of us are getting your drift, Kayo. Bill has hijacked the 
>> forum, we would like it back. Interesting play of personalities, but 
>> after a while it gets to be the same dynamic over and over again, ends up 
>> somewhere in the realm between frustration and irritation.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of K.L. (KAYO) Ong
>> Sent: Wed 11/9/2011 4:58 PM
>> To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [DML] Rob Grady's Personal Lower Suspension
>>
>>
>>
>> "Why?"
>>
>> First, because I see a similar pattern of the" front end" thread
>> being exploited as the "carburetor" thread in the past AND the people
>> JUST FADED away from the continuation of the fruitless discussions...
>> Just as well as another delicate subject of the founder and creator
>> of the DMC not too long ago.... (Although you are right on many points.)
>>
>> Second, you must understand that I am not questioning your talents or
>> your greatness in the ability to conjure up a more efficient device
>> or working systems for any part or system for the DeLorean.  (I
>> thought you would like to hear that "positive" pat on the back.)
>>
>> Thirdly, and you STILL haven't address the MAIN issue of insurance
>> with either topics!!!  That is MY ONLY question and the
>> "discussion"... INSURANCE COVERAGE!!!  The question of legal
>> responsibility in case there is a liability problem when the "said"
>> part or set up fails!!!  You must understand, there are many young or
>> naive people reading these posts about your conversions and they need
>> to be told of THEIR responsibilities in case they follow your ways in
>> doing these conversions.... (I have gotten calls from young owners
>> asking for an opinion of your postings.)
>>
>> Fourthly, and AGAIN, you use references to the various businesses and
>> the people you had mentioned to justified or to compare your front
>> end design.  The difference is that they are (and should) be backed
>> up by an insurance policy?  That MAKES them legal and liable when
>> they are doing business.  Which MEANS, if their parts, components and
>> services fails or faults, THERE IS the insurance policy that will
>> back them.   A "Back yard" mechanics and "Shade Tree" mechanics HAVE
>> NO insurance to back them, UNLESS they do "hold a policy" as to cover
>> their work and the components that are installed.  And in the
>> industries, these part and set ups that are not recognized are called
>> "Rube Goldberg" and etc....
>>
>> Lastly, will you back up someone who takes on your design and there
>> is a mishap in your design/engineering?  Just remember, when there is
>> a failure which causes "Bodily Harm" (including death) and there IS
>> NO insurance or approval, WHO IS GOING TO BE YOUR DADDY?  As I have
>> said, your front end (and or carburetor) are not the question, just
>> the subject of liability that is associate to them.
>>
>> I am sure those reading these posts will understand my direction of
>> my thread...
>>
>> Kayo Ong
>> #5508
>> Lic 9D NY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:30 AM, content22207 wrote:
>>
>> > Why are you even mentioning carburetion? This discussion is about
>> > front end lower suspension. Please keep the discussion on topic.
>> >
>> > My front end is upgraded with a brackets that appear to be DMCH
>> > approved, and Byrnes LCA's. You can complain about Byrne's LCA's if
>> > you want, but note that they are not worlds removed from Bryan's
>> > LCA's that Houston used to sell, and which Houston is still using
>> > for its own purposes.
>> >
>> > Bill Robertson
>> > #5939
>> >
>> > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Bill:
>> > >
>> > > You say: "DMCH markets itself as the closet thing to Dummury" and
>> > you
>> > > added that "hardly 'backyard'." I am not sure of your
>> > > implication??? The DMHC operating as a business should have business
>> > > insurance. The business insurance should have an "umbrella coverage"
>> > > as to back up the products they sell, why we as customer would not
>> > > worry about the products brought.
>> > >
>> > > As I have said, people can conjured up and make nice workable
>> > > modifications.... And these mods may work well... But, when the
>> > > modified parts fails, what will be the outlook and the position that
>> > > the underwriting insurance company take?
>> > >
>> > > And as far as the other "stateside DMC franchise" vendors selling
>> > > another person or company's manufactured products, it only means
>> > that
>> > > they sell the parts. And again, hopefully for them that they have
>> > > business insurance or product liability insurance to cover
>> > themselves
>> > > as well.
>> > >
>> > > You brought up Rob's Green DeLorean, I am sure Rob has his business
>> > > insurance to cover his Green DeLoreans front end. I do believe that
>> > > when he puts his "NYS Dealer" plates on it, there is an umbrella
>> > > coverage? Also, if Rob does something to his Green DeLorean and for
>> > > what he ALSO do for his customer, he ALWAYS has "liability" with the
>> > > products or service on his mind... Do ask me and I will personal
>> > tell
>> > > you on several issues!!!
>> > >
>> > > As for Ed Uding, he should have insurance for the products he sells
>> > > as well and all of the people that are involved in selling his
>> > > products? (Foolish if he and they don't.)
>> > >
>> > > Many DMLers have seen your front-end creation and you maybe right on
>> > > your findings and many will side with you to the point that owners
>> > > will consider your findings as gospel and they will installed your
>> > > mods into their DeLoreans. Now suppose, let's say some years or a
>> > > decade goes by and something really drastic happens to a converted
>> > > DeLorean where "bodily harm" is involved. Do you think the insurance
>> > > of the DeLorean involved will be covered when they discovered the
>> > > undocumented conversion is the caused of the problem? I believe the
>> > > insurance company will not cover the damages of property and the
>> > > people involved, because it was not disclosed to them (lied or
>> > > deceptive)...
>> > >
>> > > I am curious, if your insurance policy covers your modify DeLorean?
>> > > Do you or have you the need to inform them that your DeLorean front
>> > > end is no longer original and modified?
>> > >
>> > > Bill, I really don't know you or your lifestyle. You are articulate
>> > > and do come off very well in depth in what you believe and what you
>> > > do with your DeLorean and you do have an adequate answer for all
>> > when
>> > > questioned. I can respect that, but in these cases your carburetor
>> > > mod and the front-end mod are two major differences when something
>> > > should go wrong. You need to tell people that failure is an option
>> > > as well... As for your car, the worst that can happen with your
>> > > carburetor modification is fire to your DeLorean and will stop
>> > > running and on the worst, you may not get paid by the insurance.
>> > > With the front end and whilst in motion, it can be disastrous for
>> > > people in the DeLorean and the innocent people around the DeLorean
>> > > should failure arises. But on the other hand, your modified front
>> > > end can last forever... Who knows... Insurance is the my only issue
>> > > on my long winding thread with the mods/conversions.... Nothing
>> > more,
>> > > nothing less. Remember, a suer can change your world if there is
>> > > "no" or "inadequate" insurance coverage...
>> > >
>> > > BTW, FWIW, two years ago I had witness on the I-495 Eastbound of the
>> > > Long Island Expressway's shoulder, there was a brand new bright
>> > > Yellow Ferrari with the right side of front end down with the bumper
>> > > sitting on wheel that was lying flat on the road. It seems to me the
>> > > front end had collapsed. The Ferrari had not struck any other car on
>> > > the road. Luck for him it was a just an embracement for there was a
>> > > very long tattletale skid mark from the road right into the dirt
>> > > shoulder. When all of these threads of the front-end mods came on
>> > > the DML, all that came to my mind was the Bright Yellow Ferrari on
>> > > the side of the road....
>> > >
>> > > Kayo Ong
>> > > #5508
>> > > Lic. 9D NY
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Nov 8, 2011, at 7:42 PM, content22207 wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > DMCH markets itself as the closest thing to Dunmurry -- hardly
>> > > > "backyard." Ed Uding's brackets are made by one DMC franchise, and
>> > > > sold stateside by another DMC franchise, so I assume they have
>> > > > Houston's blessing.
>> > > >
>> > > > Bill Robertson
>> > > > #5939
>> > > >
>> > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "K.L. (KAYO) Ong" <klo@> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Mike:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thank you for your reply. I had expected an answer of such.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It is great for everyone to talk about the enhanced
>> > performance and
>> > > > > the achievements to produce the components, but no one is
>> > addressing
>> > > > > the liability area when the modified component fails....
>> > Especially
>> > > > > the front end components of this subject.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When one thinks about modifying their cars and they should check
>> > > > with
>> > > > > their insurance provider to see if they will cover the
>> > > > > modifications. Without informing the insurance company to the
>> > > > > installed modifications, most likely the insurance companies
>> > will
>> > > > > quickly look at it as a loophole and to avoid offering any legal
>> > > > > support and payment when the disaster occurs. Although to get
>> > > > > coverage is not impossible, I was told that some insurance
>> > companies
>> > > > > would cover ANYTHING if the "premiums" were in THEIR favor,
>> > so one
>> > > > > will pay a pricey premium for the coverage.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The differences with components from established companies
>> > and home
>> > > > > brew parts are the companies who are advertising and selling
>> > their
>> > > > > modify components should have some type of insurance? For if
>> > they
>> > > > > are operating as a company, they should have product liability
>> > > > > insurance as to cover their products? So, the purchaser who have
>> > > > > these components correctly installed can hold the company
>> > > > responsible
>> > > > > for law suit resulting from failures that can incur?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The independent person as a "back yard mechanic" or "shade tree
>> > > > > mechanic" operating on their own with their "home brewed parts,"
>> > > > > usually has no product liability or a business insurance
>> > coverage
>> > > > and
>> > > > > that can be a legal liability problem for the owner of the
>> > vehicle
>> > > > > involved.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Modifications can be a great thing for the car owner with the
>> > > > > installed mod components and it can become costly and life
>> > changing
>> > > > > when they fail without the insurance coverage.... And the way
>> > people
>> > > > > are instigated to sue heavily by their lawyer -- They will be
>> > suing
>> > > > > for everything (for they get at least one third of the
>> > awardment).
>> > > > > In today's climate with lawsuits, a basic coverage is not
>> > enough...
>> > > > > If the insurance company don't cover the suit completely,
>> > then one
>> > > > > can be held responsible for the balance and be in bankruptcy?
>> > Not a
>> > > > > good thing....
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Kayo Ong
>> > > > > #5508
>> > > > > Lic 9D NY
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Michael Griese wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Nobody here can answer that question accurately. You would
>> > need to
>> > > > > > take it up
>> > > > > > with your insurance company in your state. As an example,
>> > whatever
>> > > > > > State Farm
>> > > > > > covers in New York may not be the same as what State Farm
>> > > > covers in
>> > > > > > Minnesota or
>> > > > > > what Geico would cover in New York.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > Mike
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ________________________________
>> > > > > > From: K.L. (KAYO) Ong <klo@>
>> > > > > > To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > > Sent: Tue, November 8, 2011 2:56:29 PM
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DML] Rob Grady's Personal Lower Suspension
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I had posted a question a while back on this subject and it
>> > was
>> > > > left
>> > > > > > unanswered. These modifications by everyone are a major
>> > structural
>> > > > > > change for the front end. I believed all these modifications
>> > > > are not
>> > > > > > the original DMC engineering from decades ago that are on
>> > filed as
>> > > > > > DMC-12. Although the modifications ARE improvements. The
>> > > > > > questions are: What happens and if there is a failure and and
>> > > > there
>> > > > > > are "property" and or "bodily harm" caused by failure? Will
>> > the
>> > > > > > insurance company STILL cover the mishap? Or will they wash
>> > their
>> > > > > > hands of the matter? I am curious and not cleared in this
>> > area.
>> > > > Law
>> > > > > > suits can be a financial disaster, if not life changing if
>> > > > there is
>> > > > > > no coverage for the modifications.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Kayo Ong
>> > > > > > #5508
>> > > > > > Lic 9D NY
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
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>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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