[DML] Re: Turbocharger availability

["captain_hydrogen" <captainhydrogen@xxxxxxx>]

Martin,

Long time no chat!  I appreciate your feedback and enjoyed your 
article quite a bit.  Your site has a great look too 
(www.delorean.co.uk).

According to the info packet that I received from Eleanor a few years 
ago and from my friend and current AZ-D VP, Matt P. Olans, the Island 
Twin Turbo Kit makes 210 HP.  I have never driven one, nor have I 
seen dyno results to confirm any claims.

I do believe there are dyno results indicating around 190 HP for a 
supercharged DeLorean somewhere on Tamir's site 
(www.entermyworld.com) and if I recall my conversations with Glen 
Coulter the creator of that system in early 2003, I think it is 
running at 6 psi.  Keep in mind that with a belted supercharger there 
will be some parasitic loss, sometimes as much as 20% depending on 
the system.  This system also does not utilize any charge air cooling 
method.

According to recent conversations with Rob Grady (www.pjgrady.com), 
use of pressures reaching 7 psi. or more, require forged pistons to 
ensure longevity.  Although higher pressures can be used for short 
periods, risk of detonation increases and piston damage is not 
uncommon.

I sit corrected; B.A.E. did use their own turbo.  Former AZ-D VP, 
Ryan McCaffery and I drove a BAE Turbo DeLorean in 2002, but the 
system was not well kept and the turbo seemed to have seized long 
before we got behind the wheel.  I don't really know very much about 
B.A.E., so I can only offer the following:

"B.A.E., Torrance, California
     B.A.E. started in 1968 as Bob's Automotive in Lawndale, 
California.  Beginning with customer installations of turbochargers 
on street and race cars and on marine engines, Bob McClure directed 
his efforts toward the creation of kits for marine and automotive 
applications.
     In 1977 the name was changed to B.A.E. and the firm moved to 
larger quarters.  Former Rajay engineer Bill Wilbur joined the firm 
to assist in engineering."
     (HPBooks, 1984, TURBOCHARGERS, by Hugh MacInnes, p. 124-125)

Martin,
You mentioned that the "Alpine GTA and Renault 25 turbo pushed out 
200hp on 8psi of boost into a 2.5, and that's with an intercooler and 
compression ratio of 7.6:1"

The DMC ONLY TURBO KIT doesn't make modifications to the engine 
internals.  When I met Harry and he was running 9 psi intercooled and 
with extra fuel injectors, he was still at 8.8:1.  I would think that 
the first thing to fail in the engine would be the head gasket, and 
according to AZ-D Club Mechanic, Ryan Gould, his did.  If I am 
remembering correctly, Harry claimed to have never blown a head 
gasket.  There are other head gasket materials that would probably 
hold everything together better than the stock gaskets and since it 
is a concern of mine, I would like some suggestions.

Martin Gutkowski and David Teitelbaum,
According to Don Steger, who has a 650 HP DeLorean at his shop with a 
destroyed an input shaft, the problem is inertia.  Meaning bodies at 
rest tend to stay at rest, until you floor it from a stand still and 
shear your input shaft.  According to Don Steger, if the car is 
already moving, having a lot of power is not as big a deal as when 
taking off from a standing start.  That being said, I read somewhere 
that the input shaft for the Renault R30 tends to fail between 280 - 
300 HP.  I have also heard there is a guy in Europe who makes one-
piece Inconel input shafts for our transmissions, able to withstand 
over 1,000 HP, which is interesting because the rest of the R30 
transmission will turn into shrapnel between 500-550 HP (so I'm 
told).  I think Harry Ward has a performance clutch in his car, but I 
do not know of any transmission mods.

Marc Levy,
You are right in that there is always a little turbo spooling even at 
low RPM.  According to Harry Ward, his turbo system starts to kick 
into boost at about 1,850 - 1,900 RPM.  It seems that he designed his 
system for off-the-line and mid-range performance.  I am not sure 
what Harry has done to avoid over pressurizing the oil breather, I 
don't recall him mentioning it as a problem.

As far as the DMC ONLY Kit from Harry Ward, I can 100% verify that 
the quality of workmanship concerning welds and machining in the 
intake and turbo manifold are top notch.  I can also confirm that, it 
does not come with all of the "special mods" that he has done to his 
own car.  I am pretty sure that his standard system that he used to 
sell would up the crank output to somewhere between 200 & 230 HP 
keeping the stock 8.8:1 compression ratio.  It is a beautiful system, 
yet I cannot confirm any dyno results, as I have not installed the 
system in my car.  I can only confirm what he told me about his car 
in particular.  He has had his car running on this system since 1987 
and has never had to open the engine.  He has had the turbo rebuilt 
once, as all turbochargers eventually need.  In summer 2004, other So 
Cal DeLorean owner have told me that Harry Ward's DeLorean is the 
fastest turbo DeLorean they know of and they get nervous as 
passengers.

Again, I cannot confirm any of the performance figures that Harry 
Ward gave me, but I know that there are cars out there running his 
turbo kit whose owner may be able to share their experience with the 
rest of us.  If anyone wants to look it up and scan the image, he 
said he used to advertise his kit in DeLorean World.

I will post some pictures that I took of Harry Ward's car under the 
heading of DMC ONLY TURBO KIT.  If anyone is interested in using 
these pictures on their web sites, please remember to reference me as 
your source.  If you have any questions about the content of the 
pictures, please let me know and I will do my best to answer or 
generate questions. :)

Thank you,
Ben Ferguson (Captain Hydrogen)
Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org), Car Cruise Director - VIN 10365
American Hydrogen Association (www.clean-air.org), Member of the 
Board of Directors, 1996 - present
--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Martin Gutkowski <martin@xxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Ben
> 
> Not to attack you because I know you're only repeating what you've 
heard 
> but...
> 
> >There have been at least three DeLorean-specific turbo kits 
available 
> >over the years.  The Island Twin Turbo Kit, the BAE Single Turbo 
Kit, 
> >and the DMC ONLY Intercooled Single Turbo Kit from Harry Ward.  As 
> >far as I know, all of these kits used IHI Turbos in either single 
or 
> >twin configuration.  
> >
> I *thought* the BAE kit was so-called because it used a BAE turbo. 
I've 
> heard from the owner of one over here that it's actually off an 
aircraft 
> engine. Could be wrong though!
> 
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