Re: [DML] Fan Fail Light Without Actual Fan Fail

[dherv10@xxxx]

Martin, I'm really not trying to argue with you or any engineers, I just work 
with them for years and saw what they like to do. Like I said I just try to 
keep it simple. If we tried to engineer for every possible circumstance that 
we could think of, the price would be cost prohibited, but we would have one 
Hell of a wigget. 
I think the Fanzilla is a good product also, but I do things it doesn't and 
people complained about the price . It's like I have told several people, it 
is what it is and the Fan Fix is what it is. People have bought mine and like 
the constant light on while the fans are getting power, plus all the other 
features it has as outlined earlier. 
Anything, The Fan Fix and Fanzilla are both an upgrade for the wire that De 
Lorean put in the sockets to replace the fan fail.. That had nothing for 
added protection, no light coming or going. You were just dead in the water. 
As, I said and it wasn't pointed out in this post, I don't draw the fan 
voltage or current off the wiring loom, so I don't have to stagger. I also 
don't build in the stagger because as said in a post several weeks ago, by 
the time it's done it's over. You know what I mean, Look at the spike on a 
scope, it milliseconds if that. 

#1 In my design, I've kept the "quirk" of the light coming on for a 
second each time the fans engage. Should one or other fail, it'll stay 
on. I like the visual indicator too. ( Good we agree, It's just not 
constant. )

#3 If the motors have such a low failure rate, they should never draw 
enough to trip the circuit breaker anyway. ( No, Not totally true, As the 
motors turn and the brushes wear down the current goes up, thus they can blow 
a fuse during start up because of the fast acting, the circuit breaker is 
very forgiving and could stand the abuse of higher current draw much longer. 
Also, the bearings over time will wear down and again blow a fuse faster than 
a circuit breaker will respond. That's why I fuse each fan with a 15 amps 
fuse due to the fans draw 14 amps of run current and the fuse will handle the 
start current up as long as the above conditions don't apply. ) The excess 
current is created by poor connections in the crimps, terminals etc. You're 
bypassing these with your system, I'd replace them.
( I'm not bypassing them . Again I fuse at 15 amps and the fans draw 14 run. 
You also know as an engineer that if the inrush current was to high the fuse 
will blow faster. If the fans don't get the current they need, the start up 
current curver is longer and the fast acting fuse will blow. Bad connectors 
will help cause this effect.
#4 The design I've come up with thus far is very simple - I was very 
pleased when I found those Philips switches because as everyone knows, 
solid state devices (no moving parts) are MORE reliable than relays. 
Cost of components is about $20 total....
( Your right, I feel they are more reliable also, but if one of them goes, a 
relay that has lasted 20 years with two fans and now mine has one for each 
fan can be bought almost anywhere by any body.) If you don't know electronics 
very well and I'm not around in 20 years . Any one can replace a relay. 
Again, If the original 20/30 lasted 10 to 15 years , then how long will my 40 
amps last now only handling one fan each at 15 amps ea.)

I happilly stick my hand in the air and say "of course this isn't 
necessary" - but the DeLorean was designed to tell you when one of your 
fans fail - a unique feature I'd like to restore. I also like the 
sequencing function of the FanZilla, which my design performs, yours 
does not. 
( You have a light on the dash that tells you your head lights are on, with 
mine you have a light that your fans are getting voltage. The sequencing is a 
nice feature and as I said i can do it also, but on my design, why.) Again, 
I just go by the Kis. Keep it simple.

To answer your specific comment "I like to see engineers get onto a 
problem and make it bigger than it is" reminds me of a saying among 
engineers "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is" :-) Seriously though, I 
started thinking of all possible outcomes: What about a freak piece of 
debris flying up from the wheel and slicing through the cabling to the 
fans? My system (and the FanZilla, as far as I know) will detect this 
immediately.Yours will not. (Your right, mine won't detect it. The fans 
would just shut off, But the chances are what 1 in a million.) 

In designing and building fighting robots, there's one lesson I've 
learnt very painfully: Don't design the thing for all the eventualities 
you can think of, design it for those you CAN'T think of..

I really do need to stop talking about it and go and actually BUILD one 
of these badgers, don't I?!!! 
Yes you do and I will sell it If you like on the web site.Or I might build it 
for you with my people and sources. But, by the time we get through, will it 
be under $99.00. Box, labor, boards, solder, time, sockets, pins, wire, heat 
sink, so on. 

John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/


>Martin, Joe and Group.
>
<snip>



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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:36:09 +0100
Subject: Re: [DML] Fan Fail Light Without Actual Fan Fail
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