Toby TABs (was Re: Drive Axles thunking?)

["tmpintnl" <tobyp@xxxx>]

Walt - I wanted to get back to you on a couple of points that you 
brought out here, just so that you have the story behind what you have 
found. Sorry Moderator - This could be a long one!

>Anyway, the Toby TABs are a work of art. You even have your name 
>engraved on the head. And what's the deal with that little dollar 
>sign symbol? I know they cost a lot to make but...? :-)

The "dollar sign" is actually an "S" with an "I" superimposed on it. 
That's the corporate logo for the manufacturer ... Sonic Industries. I 
had to put some kind of name on it to accommodate their production 
tracking system. The popular vote was to call them "TOBY-TAB's" (I 
blame Jim Sawyer) 

>Want some constructive criticism? The 12 point head is nice, but 
>believe it or not, I didn't have a 12 point non-metric socket to fit 
>it. I ended up ...

The bolt blanks were part of a large order by Boeing, and I was able 
to buy a slight excess production on the order. Since they ordered 
12-point heads, and it was the only way I could get them at the price 
that I did, I was forced to accept the 12-point head configuration. 
Without that concession, the bolts would have cost another $12 - $15 
each if totally custom-made from scratch. 

>(torqueing) at 90 degrees I figure the difference is canceled. I 
>assume you have an opinion on this?

You are absolutely correct in assuming that no correction is necessary 
if your crows foot or other adapter is at 90 degrees. Good job!

>I suggest selling each set of bolts with it's own set of 
>instructions. 

I hadn't considered "multiple kit" purchases like this. Thanks for 
the suggestion.

>Also, I'm a believer in jam nuts. I think you should sell the bolts 
>with extra nuts even if it raised the price by another buck or two. 
>I'm used to seeing jam nuts supplied with the PJ Grady TABs.

I sent you an email directly regarding this issue, but I will repeat 
myself a little for the benefit of the List. The use of jam nuts is 
perfectly okay, and is more or less a personal preference in joints 
that are not actively rotating. For rotating joints, a jam nut or 
other mechanical lock is very necessary. If the TAB's are properly 
torqued, there should be no rotation of any of the parts in the 
stackup. All motion should be accommodated in the rubber bushing. A 
self-locking nut is adequate for this installation. As I told you, I 
will talk to Darryl about including some other nuts in the kit, for 
those who feel better with jam nuts. It may affect the price a little 
bit ... there is no profit margin to speak of in this project. Any 
thoughts from the rest of you on this topic?

>I would have rather you used metric sizes, and I'm sure your overseas 
>customers would agree even more.

Sonic Industries is not tooled up for metric applications at this 
point, so it was necessary to use SAE threads to avoid having to front 
additional tooling charges for new metric thread rolling dies. 
Unfortunately, quite often convenience comes with a stiff price tag.

>I had a really hard time getting the bolt through the trailing arm 
>until I realized that it was catching on the shoulder at the base of 
>the threads. That is a big shoulder as bolts go. Maybe if you made 
>the next batch using metric threads then this wouldn't be a problem 
>[sly grin].

See above. I do apologize for not mentioning this aspect of the 
installation. I experienced the same thing on a couple of the cars 
that we installed the prototypes in. 

>I think it would be a good idea if you sold new bushings with the 
>bolts. This would of course raise the price some more, but it makes 
>sense to do them together.

I agree, and I am still working to find a vendor that wants to talk 
seriously about urethane replacements. I didn't want to buy a bunch 
on OEM bushings from Houston or someplace, and hope to be able to move 
a relatively expensive package of parts. We had to dig deep to fund 
this project as it is.

>That old bolt was so bent that it took the sleeve out with it. We 
>had to cut the bolt to get the washers off. 

There are some contributors to the list that need to note this 
comment. Hello?

>It would be really great if you provided new harder washers with it 
>too.

I kept having to look at the price point for the kits. People have a 
hard time buying bolts for this price as it is. Good hardened flat 
washers are quite expensive. 

>I think that Toby TABs are definitely the way to go(unless you are 
>spending $9K on a stainless steel frame :-) Sure Toby-TABs are 
>expensive, but wow. They are so much stronger than anything else 
>that could be used. I don't think that any other kind of bolt could 
>be made to work as safely.

Exactly.

>What is the life expectancy of an OEM TAB that is kept properly 
>torqued? I don't think it would last very long. I've seen two bent 
>TABs now that weren't loose -- just bent. Why did they bend?

Good question. The compressive yield strength of the OEM bolts isn't 
that high. I get yelled at when I go off on a technical tangent, so I 
would suggest wading through the articles that I wrote that are in the 
Tech section. I talked about the bending strength a little. If you 
have more questions ... give a shout, and I'll take a shot at getting 
you the answers.

Toby Peterson VIN 2248
Winged1