Erik Geerdink said: > Ok, this is what I know...there were 500 black cars, right. > They were used for testing purposes correct? crashes and > such. They were called "black cars" because they did not > have stainless steel panels attached. There are several factual errors here. We know that production VINs start at 500, we DO NOT know that there were 500 black cars. Last July, DMC Joe addressed this issue in message # 1589: http://www.egroups.com/group/dmcnews/1589.html ". . . Although there were less than 500 of these training units it was decided to start the regular production numbers at 500. So although these cars were never completed they did have ID (vin's) numbers somewhere between 1 and 500." In automotive the industry, black cars are used to set up the assembly line, "dial in" the machinery, align the jigs & fixtures, and give the workers practice. As such some of them would have been given some stainless body panels. Others might have been given seats, engines, etc.. In fact, if some of the cars were used for crash tests they had to be finished almost exactly like production cars. > now heres my question: What did they do for the doors? Any of the cars that were used to set up the door assembly line and/or for crash tests must have had normal stainless doors. Perhaps there were also complete bodies and doors made from fiberglass, but these would have been stand-ins for real cars, used to work out material handling systems around the plant. This type of black car would not be used to work out minute production details or make crash or reliability tests. In those days the use of such stand-in dummies was a fairly common practice for setting up material handling procedures. I find it very likely that prior to VIN 500 no two DeLoreans were the same. Some of them may have been complete cars while other were just fiberglass dummies. Would DMC have assigned VINs to fiberglass mock-ups? I think so. Consider this: about the same time the DMC factory was gearing up for production, NASA was gearing up for its first shuttle flights. Because the actual orbiters were busy being finished and undergoing ground tests, NASA made two 'dummy' shuttles to perform flight tests and work out its shuttle handling procedures. NASA officially assigned these dummy orbiters the names Enterprise (flight tests) and Pathfinder (handling tests). Pathfinder is now on display in Huntsville: http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/pathfinder.html DMC probably assigned VINs to different types of dummy DeLoreans just as NASA gave names to different types of dummy shuttles. It makes sense, since the DMC workers in training had to get accustomed to using the VINs to coordinate the assembly line before production could start. - Mike Substelny