To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: moderator@xxxxxxxxxxx To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 5 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. PROJECT DELOREAN : NEW HOME, NEW SITE From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean@xxxxxxxxx> 2. DeLorean sighting From: Jack The Stripper <motti@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 3. Re: Re: Brake Master Cylinder Rebuild Kits? From: jwit6@xxxxxx 4. List behaviour From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 5. Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: PROJECT DELOREAN : NEW HOME, NEW SITE Hi Group, First I'd like to thank everyone who's posted pics from the Memphis show. Project Delorean was far from ready and my schedule just didn't permit me to go, but it's been great seeing the shots of all the cars. Thanks again! I'd also like to announce that Project Delorean has a new look and a new home. I was sick of the ever-increasing pop-up ads on Angelfire so I finally purchased a domain. Initially I was just going to migrate the existing site over to the new host, but I was tired of the look so I decided to rebuild the site as I migrated. It took longer, but I think you'll all agree the new site is better. The new site is at: www.projectdelorean.com Finally, as a quick update, I've been fabricating the new exhaust system lately. It's a 2" / 2 1/2" system which follows the original path, retains and relocates the cat and exits with a single pipe in the center. (Similar to one of the early Delorean prototypes) Check it out at: www.projectdelorean.com Thanks, Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:37:22 -0700 From: Jack The Stripper <motti@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: DeLorean sighting I saw a DeLorean today around 4, or 4:30 pm parked at the Huntington Post office on Jericho Tpk. in Huntington Long Island, NY. Did this belong to anyone on the list? --Joe ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:35:45 EDT From: jwit6@xxxxxx Subject: Re: Re: Brake Master Cylinder Rebuild Kits? ***** Moderator's Note ***** The moderators try to keep the discussions on the list civil. We have learned over the years that what one member sees as a resonable response is seen as an attack by someone else. Certain attempts at humor can (and are) misinterpreted as well. Questions about a proposed solution to a particular problem are legitimate content for the list. Most of the time, the goal of the questions are to improve the understanding of the solution, and in every instance, there are alternatives available from the various vendors. We as moderators screen out the obvious attacks, but if a post can be interpreted in a couple of different ways, we may ask for clarification before sending it through. Sometimes, the proposed solutions can cause unintended problems - a good example are "drop in" replacements for R-12 that contain volatile gasses. Questioning these solutions is definately in the interest of the typical owner. It is up to each individual to determine for themselves what solution is best for their situation. The moderating team will not make those decisions for the list membership. Vendors are an important part of the DeLorean community. They support the cars through their products, they support events like Ken's recent shindig in Memphis. They also provide a lot of support here. Imagine what the list would be like without DMCJoe, John Hervey, Darryl Tinnerstet, and others who provide advice and council regarding repairs and modifications to our cars. Your moderating team tries to keep the outright advertising to a minimum. For the most part, the vendors cooperate, but they do need reminders from time to time to tone things down. References to web pages are ok, and direct responses to questions regarding availability of a particular part are allowed. Flyers, price lists, discounts, are not. We also try to screen out spam that hits other sites. Things like "I just found out about the great new product and thought you should know...." from someone who just became a member or who has never participated in the list before usually won't make it through on the first try without some additional explanation. Mike G Moderator of the Week > In fact, I greatly hesitate to pose this question in the Delorean > debating list, since I'm certain the majority response will be > attack, but it's the only place I know to ask. In a message dated 6/25/02 8:09:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tobyp@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes: << Please note the statement that this person makes regarding a hesitation (perhaps dread) at asking this list for advice and counsel on this relatively straightforward question. When we foster this kind of "fear to participate" from people who could make a significant contribution to the DeLorean marque (given the chance), then we cannot expect to see growth and development in the List, or in the car. >> Here goes...fire storm time....:-) Toby makes a good point. I suspect that a good deal of the dread of a hostile reply stems directly from the participation of some list members who have a vested interest in profiting from the non-vending membership. In short, if you're making money on something, you want everyone to buy your stuff. Vendor loyalty is fine. But attacking others who wish to find another way, or an alternate source, is counter productive for all of us. Moderators....this is your turf. Don't we need to foster an environment of trust and diversity? Why do you allow vendors to influence the tenor of the list? Perhaps a distinction needs to be made . If you sell something, and it's not open source, or you make a profit from the mebership, then you are a vendor and your motives conflict with those of the membership and the list. What are the rules concerning vendor participation and/or advertising? Sorry to stir the pot. Jim 6147 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:33:26 +0100 From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: List behaviour ***** Moderator's Note ***** Metadiscussion is generally prohibited from the list, however we are getting a number of questions about the policies regarding posts to the list. You can expect to see a copy of the list rules in your inbox on a periodic basis. Mike G Moderator of the Week Hi all Toby's comment on list ettiquette has got me thinking. He's absolutely right in what he says. I've seen so many innocent questions or discussions turn into increasingly severe disputes. The "Vendors and other scammers" being a recent case in point. Toby's own efforts with his TABs a while ago seemed to cause a witch-hunt at the time which left me feeling amazed he didn't drop the DML there and then. Here's my 2p on the subject (or 3cents at today's exchange rate :-) Personally I rarely get "moderated out". In fact the last time I recall having a message stopped _was_ deserved and carried a disclaimer that I expected it to be (did you know there's a "Mr Fusion" on the wall of the Nostromo in the opening scene in "Alien"? - ha! got it in this time :-P). In that case I got a polite reply that my message was being declined. Fair enough. (I've also had the same experience as Walter of replying to a message after imbibing a jar or three and reading my post the following day and wondering who got at my PC to type that drivel....) One of the high points of Memphis for me was meeting all the people I "know" off the DML. An equal pleasure was meeting all the people I DIDN'T know off the DML. I lost count of the number of "lurkers" who knew me by following my posts. This was very gratifying, but in EVERY case, I was wondering why this person didn't post also, because they obviously had a lot to say and would have a great contribution to make. Basically it was for fear of the stern replies that too often fly around. I like to think of the DML as a room full of like minded people all chatting about DeLoreans. Of course there are differences of opinion - but it's all too easy to forget that through text alone, it's impossible to convey the "feeling" that speech and body language adds to a face-to-face conversation. Memphis was an eye-opener for meeting people I'd always "labelled" as being of a certain personality. Boy was I wrong! I'm sure John Hervey won't mind me putting his name on that list! Throughout the show I was getting needled by grinning comments about our recent exchange with regards his Fan Fix. Thanks to Bill Lane, we made our peace on the first morning, had lunch, and for my part, gained a completely different level of respect :-) I think that posting to the DML is very rewarding IF you say only what you'd say face-to-face. And on a personal note, sometimes I think a lot of these misunderstandings are caused simply by people not thoroughly reading the posts to which they are replying, and in a lot of cases, not re-reading what they just wrote _before_ posting it. That's just my opinion. All the Best Martin #1458 - Just got my seats back from Belfast - Mmmmmmmm :-) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:22:25 -0500 From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah ***** Moderator's Note ***** A key concept to keep in mind, this list is not a free speech platform. If it was, it wouldn't be moderated :-) The primary content guideline for the list is that each post should contain information about DeLorean - the car, the company, or the man. Posts that don't meet this criteria don't make it through, particularly ones that are starting a new thread. There are additional rules (that should be hitting your e-mail readers soon) that determine the posts that will make it through. Todd makes a good point. It is easy to dash off a post in the heat of the moment that contains notions that you would never say to someone face to face. Before hitting that send button, take a moment to reread what you have written to see if it meets that condition. It would sure make my job easier... Mike G Moderator of the Week > I like freedom of speech -- which also implies freedom > to give bad advice or ask stupid questions. I certainly understand where you're coming from on this, Walt. Other list members have mentioned that they have been "censored" only on the merits of their ideas and not because their posts were inflammatory, offensive, off-topic, etc. I have no first-hand experience, so I have no idea who's right. In defense of the moderators, though, I think it's worth mentioning that all posts that make it to the list are both public and permanent. If someone posts incorrect information, it becomes part of the public archive and can be found later by someone searching for factual information. This isn't just hypothetical -- think of the times it has happened before with part numbers, like the Bosch number for the relays. The only thing to do is post a follow-up message correcting the bad info and hope anyone who reads one also reads the other. It's not as big of a deal for those of us in the present who follow the discussions in real time, but it's not the ideal method for getting good data to future D owners searching through the archives one, two, or ten years from now. > people have had their feelings hurt for giving their > opinions and advice on the DML before and don't > want to be torn up anymore I can understand that, too...some threads over the past few months have gotten pretty nasty. Is the solution to have the moderators block more of the personal attacks? Or are they over-moderating as it is? Maybe the best idea would be for folks to post as if they were speaking to the entire list in person. E-mail tends to give some people the same anonymous bravado that cars give to those with road rage. If the members of this list showed each other the same level of courtesy we showed each other in person in Memphis, I think the DML would be a much more inviting place to hang out. And if you post something that another list member decides to publicly shred you to pieces over, take comfort in the fact that he's making an ass out of himself in front of nearly 1,200 people. :-) _________________ Todd Masinelli VIN 6681 (Nov 81) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<<attachment: winmail.dat>>