RE: [DMCForum] Re: the EV1... vs Diesel

["timnagin" <timnagin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>Yeah. It just doesn't "feel" like it's worth much. But I can't show
>you this quantitatively, it's just a feeling.


Well, by all means let's trust a feeling instead of actual research and hard
numbers.  :-)


>Ha! Don't buy the more efficient vehicles then! Problem solved.


That was my exact response to BOB.  If I wanted a higher mileage vehicle I
would go buy one.  Don't MAKE me go buy one.


>If everyone fully understood the implications of the looming energy
>problems, I'm confident that you'd be in the minority with that opinion.


I am not convinced we have a "looming energy problem".  There was a movie
made recently where a politician, not a scientist in any stretch of the
imagination, tried to convince people of this.  I prefer real, hard facts
and data that can be substantiated.  For what it's worth, I would not
blindly believe any "movie" from someone saying the exact opposite either.


>For the most part, it isn't. The only difference is that we have the
>chance to either do it or not do it right now. Everywhere else is
>already done.


How can anyone possibly predict how much time we have left?  They can't.
They may have a rough idea, but have you ever heard a report about something
where they say, "experts are shocked by this outcome as it was not what they
predicted."


>Add to that the concerns of environmental types about the effects of
>drilling in ANWR, and it seems like a dubious prospect in my mind. A
>decent "last ditch" effort, but not something particularly interesting
>to me right now.


They can go into ANWR and drill with very little environmental impact.  A
recent report I read stated the US is actually one of the lower polluters on
the planet.  Don't even get me started on China.


>Sorry to say it, but I think this attitude is pure BS. First of all,
>why do we always feel it necessary to make everything into a contest
>for jobs, economy, etc. among the nations of the world? From the dawn
>of civilization we've been warring with neighboring clans, and
>frankly, it's stupid. I know it sounds very hippyish and trite, but
>if there's any problem that should bring the nations of the world
>together in finding a solution, it's this.


It's not BS.  Contest and competition are what drives innovation.  All sorts
of things have been invented that didn't have a use only to later find a use
for them.  You want to change what nature has created for millions of years?
On a very simple level, people fighting is what makes us more strong -
survival of the fittest.


>Secondly, again, this is putting the cart before the horse. Just
>because you're sure that alternate energy sources will turn into
>another Big Oil, we should be less interested in pursuing them?


Nope.


>Most alternate energy sources don't have these same inherent dirty
>qualities.


There is still waste from manufacturing that will exist.  Maybe one day it
won't be that way.


>Plus ethanol is renewable.



Not if you are using it faster than it can be renewed.  :-)


>Sure, but you wouldn't argue that a junkie shouldn't bother with rehab
>because of the effects of withdrawal, would you? Solar, wind, water
>and nuclear energy are NOT dubious in terms of their promise and
>cleanliness. There is no gamble involved here.


This is not a valid comparison.  Being a junkie does not in anyway produce
anything positive, other than lining the pockets of the dealers.


>I'm not talking about developing electric cars and ignoring coal-fired
>power plants. I'm talking about a paradigm shift to cleaner,
>renewable energy sources. There is no great chasm to jump into; the
>technology is very solidly proven, and estimates are very reliable. I
>just don't think there is as much doubt as you make it sound like.


Some people do, even expert scientists.


>It is rather difficult for me sometimes to put together answers to
>some of your points because I've honestly never heard anyone try to
>argue that fossil fuels are not dirtier than alternate energy sources,
>or that they are renewable. Still, I enjoy the challenge and thinking
>outside of the box.


I don't think I ever stated oil was cleaner than any alternative energy
source.  I believe I stated I could find something "dirty" in an alternative
energy source.

Greg

 



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