Re: [DMCForum] Posting FROM Marc Levy about Moderation

[Jon Heese <dmcforum@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hmmm... Here's my take on this.

I agree with Ryan on a lot of issues (although moderation is definitely 
not one of them) and I think he is a very decent, intelligent guy.

Marc is also clearly intelligent, though a little quick to jump into 
controversy sometimes.  All the same, I see that as nothing to hold 
against him.

So let it be known that I have no axe to grind with anyone here, nor 
have I been in private contact with anyone here (in the last 4-6 months).

However, on this one, it sure looks to me like most of the facts that 
Marc states below are more or less accurate.  As far as I see it, the 
motivation to ban Marc from posting is far from a public mandate and 
sure seems on the surface to be in violation of the rules quoted by Marc 
below.

I suppose that if my actions in this post are in violation to a forum 
rule (do forum politics count?), I'll happily leave it alone here, but I 
think what Marc brings up below bears discussion.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Jon Heese

Kevin Abato wrote:
> All:  I am forwarding this message on behalf of Marc Levy due to the fact
> that he can no longer post here without moderation (see message below for
> details on why).  I personally do not follow the forums closely and the
> facts, topics, and views in the following message are Marc's and not my own.
> 
>  
>  
> <Snip ---  FROM MARC --- Snip>
>  
>> Forum Members:
>>
>> What has Walt's "Freedom of speech" forum become?
>>
>> Please read this entire message.  I know it is long
>> winded.
>>
>> Most of us here joined an UN-MODERATED mailing list
>> for DeLorean owners and enthusiasts.  Things were
>> going well until Walt made a critical mistake.  He
>> entrusted Greg with the power of "ownership" in the
>> list.  This mistake later resulted in Greg removing
>> Walt as a member, and action which was never
>> discussed
>> with Walt.  Greg essentially "took over" the list on
>> his own.  Walt wrote to me about this and said
>> "looks
>> like Greg has fucked me too".
>>
>> No one much noticed, or cared.  Walt was not
>> participating much in the list, and Greg continued
>> to
>> run things the way they had always been...  Until
>> one
>> day he decided we were loosing too many members (in
>> HIS opinion) when the list got on to a non-DeLorean
>> topic.  Specifically, Politics and Religion.  What
>> to
>> do?  September 15. 2005 he created 2 polls asking
>> the
>> members their opinion on allowing politics and
>> religion on the forum.  The polls can be found at:
>>
>>
>  <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335588>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335588
>>
>  <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335590>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/surveys?id=1335590
>> I, Being a moderator of the list, was vocal against
>> any censorship or rules that limited free speech.
>>
>> As all of this was happening, Greg decided to make
>> Ryan a moderator.  Seemed like a good choice, being
>> that they tended to be on the "same side" of most of
>> our discussions.
>>
>> So, the vote is called based on Ryan's
>> interpretation:
>>  We will not allow politics and religion, and he
>> came
>> up with a set of "rules".
>>
>>
>  <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/30562>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/30562
>> Shortly after, I was banned for having a discussion
>> ABOUT the rules.  There was no discussion of
>> religion
>> or politics, but as soon as I publicly disagreed
>> with
>> Ryan and Greg I was booted off. 
>>
>>
>> I reluctantly returned to the Forum, through much
>> persuasion of other members. 
>>
>> So, a few months later here we go again!
>>
>> Ryan is not happy with simply ruling the DMC Forum,
>> He
>> wants to rule all internet communications about
>> DeLoreans.  So much so, that he HAS abused his
>> current
>> power to again censor the outspoken (in this case,
>> me).  Without warning, he removed my ability to post
>> to the list.
>>
>> My "rule braking" message can be found here:
>>
>>
>  <http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/34107>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/34107
>> I am not sure where in that message there is
>> discussion of religion, or politics.  But, does it
>> matter?
>>
>> More importantly, why did Ryan not follow his OWN
>> RULES:
>>
>> "...
>>
>> Discussions that the moderators deem inappropriate
>> will be handled as
>> follows:
>>
>> 1. A public warning will be posted in the relevant
>> thread.
>> 2. Members who ignore the warning may be subject to
>> a
>> brief revocation of posting privileges.
>> 3. Continued violations will be handled on a case by
>> case basis.
>> 4. In the interest of full disclosure, moderator
>> actions will be posted to the list.
>>
>> ..."
>>
>>
>> No "public warning" was posted on this matter.
>>
>> Since there was no warning, there was none to
>> ignore,
>> therefore this action is against established policy.
>>
>> **** The actions taken by Ryan have not been posted
>> to
>> the list, "In the interest of full disclosure".  Why
>> should he?  He is simply using his power to silence
>> me. 
>>
>> So, now that you all know what is going on...
>>
>> Frankly, I can just go away again.  The mailing list
>> is just a form of entertainment.  It is not critical
>> or even necessary.  The point of me taking the time
>> to
>> write this is so there is a record of what went
>> on...
>> And if at any point in the future someone considers
>> moving to any forum run by Ryan, they know who they
>> are dealing with.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
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