[DMCForum] Re: All people of faith are dumb, and so am I apparently.

["Flavia" <frvianna@xxxxxxxxx>]

See below:

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "cruznmd" <racuti1@xxxx> wrote:
> Is that what you call it Marc, a "difference of opinion"?
> 
> I've just been called "dumb" by a young girl whose life experience 
> is probably limited to mid-west America and New Jersey who's never 
> even met me just because I have faith.

I didn't say dumb, I said not so smart and that is what I 
experienced, I wasn't saying anyone in specific, I was talking about 
my classmates from my narrow minded catholic school, which I 
graduated from 10 years ago. And since then very smart religious 
people didn't cross my path yet. Doesn't mean they don't exist, I 
just never got to know them. Turns out that everyone who starts 
preaching to me I say: I am sorry but I'd rather not talk about 
religion bc I am not a follower. And then I see the _expression_ of 
shock on their face, followed by: Jesus loves you anyways. Then I 
excuse myself and leave.

> 
> I don't sign my posts with "Jesus is Lord", I don't proselytize and 
> I support your right to decide not to follow a faith and I sure as 
> hell don't make fun of people who make that decision or make 
blanket 
> statements regarding athiests/agnostics or whatever.

Good, if you don't say Jesus is lord to me or anyone else who doesn't 
believe that is great. I don't believe in god, so I don't talk about 
it, I don't try to convince religious people (basically I only know 
catholics) that they are wrong. I jsut say to them that I don't 
believe and I don't want to hear bible stories.

> 
> To me, that wasn't a difference of opinon. It was a slap in the 
> face. It's exactly the same as being lumped into the same catagory 
> as "rednecks" and "hon's" and caucasian modular-home refuse by Mike 
> Pack simply because I sometimes attend parking-lot cruise-in's. 
He's 
> met me twice for 5 minutes. We don't have "civil discourse" here. 
> It's venomous and denigrating. I try to keep my mouth shut but I'm 
> torn between wanting to rise above it, and outrage at being 
> indirectly insulted and slandered by many posts that pop up here. 
> Sometimes I feel like I have to defend myself even though I haven't 
> been directly named.

You shouldn't keep your mouth shut if you are being offended, but as 
you stated, I didn't mention any names or anyone in specific, I was 
talking about a fact, which is my personal experience. No one can say 
I am wrong bc there is no right or wrong that is how catholics acted 
in front of me.

> 
> It's so much safer to make insulting and stereotyping statements 
> than to call someone by name isn't it? You people might as well 
just 
> say "Rich is dumb white-trash because he goes to cruise-ins and 
uses 
> religion as a mental crutch because he believes in a God, and he 
> doesn't have a college degree."
> 
> Personally, I don't feel that 10% mutual interest in something as 
> trivial as a car is enough to overcome the other 90% contempt 
> someone has for me because of my personal views. Why would I want 
to 
> associate myself with such people?

Believe me I know what stereotype is and we are surrounded by it, I 
don't think that is enough of a reason for you not to share your 
passion for DeLoreans just because we don't share the same religious 
thoughts. The whole point of this list, which is a place to discuss, 
is to learn from each other, share experiences. If everyone here had 
the same backgrounds and thought the same way, it would be boring and 
we'd have 3 messages to read per month, instead of hundreds. Here, 
there is no age, ethinicity or faith that stops anyone from having a 
DeLorean, from being crazy about BTTF or from spending time with 
others that share common passions. I think it's great that you think 
different from me, and I respect that. Plus, I don't think anyone 
from this list who met me, would acuse me of such things that you 
said about me.
> 
> As far as institutes of "higher education" enlightening people to 
> the fact that there is no god, I think what Flavia was trying to 
> convey, is that often religion is used as a mental crutch by -some- 
> weak minded people who need someone to tell them what to do with 
> their lives. I agree, BUT I contend that a college education does 
> not eliminate this character flaw. ANY organization could fill that 
> void in a weak person's life, including belonging to a protest 
group 
> at a college. What if I said that Flavia was weak-minded and needed 
> to get her self-fulfillment by belonging to a group of bigoted 
> people who trash people of faith? I doubt she'd enjoy being stereo-
> typed by me very much that way.
Yes, I got my message across, I think religion dictates your beliefs 
and some people get really screwed being brain washed and giving 
churches a lot of money for them to spend on I have no idea what. But 
that is how I perceive, and can you imagine if I were still catholic 
and I heard about all those priests that molest little boys? THAT is 
a slap on the face! Plus, my criticism is about the church as an 
institution. If you believe in god and keep it to yourself in your 
prayers, I think that is more noble than following that church that 
is ran by ordinary human beings like ourselves, but to me. I think 
that we are too small in the universe to have this creature, God that 
created us. I work at a planetarium part time and I know how stars 
are born, how big the sun is (which is not that big compared to other 
stars) and all that stuff, that made me even more sure that science 
is my "religion" because things can be proved. I don't like to rely 
on something that I don't see and I have to have faith on but it will 
never be proven that god exists. this could go on and on, I'll stop 
here!

> 
> I'm almost 34 years old and I have visited at least 10 foreign 
> nations, I have served in a combat zone, I have stood on the polar 
> ice pack at the North Pole conducting science experiments covered 
by 
> National Geographic, and I have -life experience-. I'm so sick of 
> large groups of late-teen and early 20-something's who've barely 
> been out of their hometowns screaming that they know what's best 
for 
> me just because they watch CNN and because they are attending an 
> institute of "higher learning".
> 
> That's why I'm done with the social functions.
> 
> Rich A.
> #5335

Last, but not least I don't understand why you are letting everyone 
know what you've done in your life. So you are almost 34 yo, I am 
almost 28 years old. Making you only about 6 years older than I am. 
So you have THAT much more experience than I do? That is what I don't 
get, you are assuming I had never left NJ, to start with, this is one 
of the most diverse states in the country and the highest (or one of, 
correct if I am wrong) population density in the country. But I've 
lived in 3 different states, been to probably 40 states, lived in 3 
different countries and visited (guess how many!!!) 10 countries. I 
have friends all over the world, I was catholic and I worked at 
Andersen when Enron collapsed. Based on those I think I have a pretty 
good sense of what the world is like. No matter how much I've studied 
or experience still doesn't give me the authority or the right to say 
that religious people are wrong or that they are all stupid, and I 
never said those, again, I said I've only met "not so smart" 
catholics and all the non-religious people I met are smart.
But honestly, if you can fix cars as Josh mentioned and you've 
experienced what you said you did, you are not dumb, you know that 
and whatever people say will never make you doubt about your own 
intelligence. I guess that another thing I learned in life is to 
always be confident and I am. Therefore I am not hurt or felt like 
you slapped my face with your comments.
Hope to actually meet you someday and prove that I am normal human 
being who doesn't believe in god, and that doesn't interfere my 
ability to be sociable and make friends.

wow, that was long :)

I just need to say that I really care for the DeLorean community and 
I am extremely glad for getting involved and meeting a number of 
amazing people who became very good friends and a future husband.

Flavia from the 5th rock from the sun!LOL 
> 
> --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Marc Levy <malevy_nj@xxxx> wrote:
> > With people who have different opinions on various
> > topics of discussion?

---

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