Re: [DMCForum] Re: HEY RICH, rotary engines

[Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxxxxxx>]

Martin, 
The intercooler is facing horizontally, somewhat inside the right rear
pontoon between the "side air scoop" and an oil cooler.  On the bottom of
the oil cooler is a fan pulling air down.  That fan just cooked though, I
just bought a nicer looking 12" to replace it.  The intercooler does what
it should, I imagine.  I haven't measured any pre/post intercooler intake
temperatures...

It is in a rather bizarre location, but I ran out of room to put stuff so
that's where it went.  here are some pix that I just found that I made
for the last person that asked...

http://www.eliseusa.com/images/delorean/dsc00466.jpg
http://www.eliseusa.com/images/delorean/dsc00467.jpg
http://www.eliseusa.com/images/delorean/dsc00469.jpg

But if you look at nothing else, look at these pictures so that I will
feel better about how horrifically dirty the car was in Walt's pics.  
http://www.eliseusa.com/images/delorean/enginebay.jpg
http://www.eliseusa.com/images/delorean/enginebay2.jpg


RICH, rotaries SUCK SUCK SUCK with mileage (in general).  Mazda releases
numbers like 15 city/23 highway for the 20b.  Although I don't do any
highway driving at all, i still don't think I've seen either of those
numbers...

The new RX8 engine (RENESIS) is much prettier with emissions, but economy
is still not great.

I just checked online, the first 2 places i found said that the PRV
weighs 375lbs.  All I know is that it broke my 300lb scale when I tried
to weigh it.  This was with all the peripherals and intake stripped off.

Like Martin said, transmission would only be good if I wanted to make it
front wheel drive.  I still have the transmission that came with the 20b.
 4 speed automatic, enormous and HEAVY.  Do you want it??  I cant seem to
get rid of it.  

all the rx7s were autos or 5 speeds.  There were rx3's and rx4's, they
had 12a rotary engines, don't know about the transmissions.

The rotaries do have timing, but only for ignition.  For this, there is a
device that looks and fits like a distributor but is really hall-effect
pickups.

Don't know if I'll be at pigeon forge.  Ken has been working on me about
it, but realistically I don't see it happening.  That's 1800 
miles round trip from here; that's more miles than I put on the car in 6
months otherwise.

I'd probably pay $1000 in gas and have to stop for it 200 times.  ha ha a
little rotary joke for you

The 3rd gen 13b is heavier than the others, having two turbos and a ton
of ducting.  I'd put it at more like 3/4 of the weight.  Still so, I
think you are right that it would be quick.  I've seen 3rd gen 13bs
swapped over to single turbos and doing well more hp than a stock 20b. 
It's hard for the single turbo 13b to manage more torque though, as
increased torque is the main function of the sequential twin.  Exhaust
gasses flow to only one turbo at low RPM so it will spool faster, making
boost and higher HP numbers at lower RPMs.

Jim



On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:20:08 -0000 "cruznmd" <racuti1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
writes:
> Hey thanks for answering back. 
> 
> I didn't think the PRV weighed that much. Quite a suprise. I read 
> that rotary engines are not quite as fuel efficient. The article may 
> 
> have been out of date. Do you find this to be true?
> 
> With half the weight, even a 3rd generation 13b vs. the 20b would 
> probably make a DeLorean fly. I'm curious as to why you didn't use a 
> 
> Mazda transmission since they are obviously built to accept this 
> engine. 6 gears is really cool though. The RX series didn't have 6 
> speeds did they?
> 
> With no timing belts or chains, do you even have to set timing on a 
> rotary engine at all?
> 
> Thanks for being so thorough with all the information. I hope to see 
> 
> you and your car in Pigeon Forge.
> 
> Rich
> --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Jim Strickland 
> <ihaveanaccount@xxxx> 
> wrote:
> > Not really ignoring you (or no more than usual for that matter); i
> > thought I'd get some numbers from someone who would really know- 
> he's
> > been working with rotary engines for 20-something years.
> > 
> > He said a run of the mill 13b weighs about 250lbs for a complete
> > functioning engine.  I would have said the same- 250 to 270 lbs 
> because
> > two people can move one around pretty easily.  
> > 
> > He said the 20b weighs 340lbs.  If you add in the weight of the 
> oil
> > cooler/ intercooler, etc, it's closer to 380-400 lbs.  I think the 
> 
> PRV
> > weighs in at around 400lbs.  I recently found that the complete 
> northstar
> > weighs 470lbs with all the stuff on it.  
> > 
> > 13b's have come turbocharged and non turbocharged.  I believe the 
> first
> > 13b was in the first generation RX7 in 1985.  It was 135hp.  It 
> went up
> > to 160hp by 1989 in the 2nd generation rx7, turbocharged 2nd 
> generation
> > versions had 200hp.  The 3rd generation rx7's had another 
> iteration 
> of
> > the 13b, this time sequential twin turbo and 255hp for all 3rd 
> gens
> > (93-95).  
> > 
> > 13b's are pretty easy to get i think- still in a car.  The 2nd 
> generation
> > cars are really cheap now though.  3rd gen cars have held their 
> value
> > pretty well.
> > 
> > I was actually looking for a 3rd gen 13b engine (complete with 
> harness,
> > computer, etc) when i found that the 20b was more 
> > attainable in that condition (believe it or not).  It was more 
> expensive
> > though.  
> > 
> > My transmission is the g50 from a 1995 porsche 911 c2 (993).  
> Kennedy
> > engineering (kennedyeng.com) made me an adaptor from the 20b to 
> the
> > porsche transaxle, and saved me a huge headache.  It really did 
> just bolt
> > right up.  I also got a flywheel, pressure plate, and starter from 
> 
> them. 
> > It was an arm and a leg though- the stock porsche starter costs 
> $600 new!
> > 
> > You are right that the pictures on ebay are not very good unless 
> you know
> > what you are looking at.
> > my website is at http://www.eliseusa.com/rotary.htm .
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:19:02 -0000 "cruznmd" <racuti1@xxxx>
> > writes:
> > > Jim,
> > > 
> > > How much does a 20b weigh? A 13b? How much does the PRV weigh 
> again?
> > > 
> > > Can you get a 13b that is not turbocharged? How much horsepower 
> do 
> > > they generate that way? How rare are the 13b's?
> > > 
> > > What are you using for a transmission? If your transmission is 
> > > stock, 
> > > how did you mate them up?
> > > 
> > > I understand the very basic principle that rotaries operate on 
> but 
> > > when I look at the auction picture I can't see it. 
> > > 
> > > Don't you have a website about your car? I forget.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Rich A.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
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