[DMCForum] Re: Re Livin' the dream in 11472

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hasn't Rick gone WAY too far to turn back now? Might as well finish
the experiment. 

Am definitely going to Pigeon Forge to see it in person, even if I
have to push #5939 all the way there.

>From this point forward is guaranteed a unique car:
1) Dual engine that proves skeptics wrong
2) Rear engine with mega repower
3) Front engine/front wheel drive DeLo with mega luggage capacity in back

Was discussion in other forum recently about owners' freedom to do
with their cars as they wish. Rick's definitely pushing the envelope.

Speaking of which, hasn't CheckSix3 been strangely silent about this one?

Who's copilot for initial dual engine test drives? Might be best to
leave Karen at house in case arrangements need to be made...

Bill Robertson
#5939 (single engine 2.5 liter)

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Dave Stragand" <dave.stragand@xxxx>
wrote:
> Yes, but how in the heck are you ever going to synchronize them? 
Due to the
> different power curves and gearing ratios, it's simply not mechanically
> possible to get the output-at-the-wheels curves to match.  Even with
> automatics, you're still going to have a lot of issues.
> 
> If one is assembly is ever moving faster than the other, it's going
to push
> or drag the second (and this will almost always be this case) --
yes, even
> with automatics.  This very effect is going to cause the powerband
on both
> engines to alter their power and load, cause the trans's to up and
downshift
> erratically, and wreak havoc on the frame as it is accordianed back and
> forth -- stresses neither the original nor your front sub were
designed or
> suited for.
> 
> Even if you had two identically matched engines and transmissions, you'd
> have a hard time ever getting them synced.  As far as I know, the
only beast
> to successfully accomplish this multiple engine feat was WWI-era Sherman
> tanks, which had four straight-six Chrysler engines running together.
> However, they shared a -common- crankshaft and drivetrain.  The old
> Cartercar of the 19-teens had a dual engine setup, but again -- they
were
> mechanically synchronized via gears.
> 
> You say that due to having two auto trans's, therefore you won't
have these
> issues, but you will, as well as torque converter chatter and
foaming.  And
> unless you have positraction-type differentials in each trans, it's not
> going to want to go in a straight line either.
> 
> You're going to run into these issues if you have both engines on. 
But if
> you run on a single engine at a time, you're still going to have
some bad
> issues. The oil pump on an auto trans runs off of power from the
engine, not
> off of the wheels.  So with the car rolling on one engine, the other's
> transmission is going to be running without lubrication.  That's why
> manufacturers tell you that you should not tow an automatic on the drive
> wheels for more than 25 miles or so tops, unless the engine is
running or
> you disconnect the driveshaft.  The inside of the trans WILL fry
after about
> 50 - 100 miles.  You're going to be running metal-on-metal inside
the case.
> 
> It may work Jim, but I'd venture to bet that due to these engineering
> limitations, you're going to run into:
> 
> 1) lots of blown transmissions
> 2) unstable steering, especially under load
> 3) 'bouncy' braking as the trans's will downshift at different times
> 4) unstable, chirpy, jerky, crooked acceleration
> 
> Walt is right.  Older four-wheel drives shared these same handling
issues,
> and they even used the SAME engine and transmission.  The effects
are going
> to be greatly magnified in your configuration.
> 
> Your car will certainly be unique, and a great novelty, but I
wouldn't plan
> on trying to run both engines together on any regular basis. 
Another way to
> look at it -- in 100 years of folks trying to make cars faster, why
hasn't
> anyone (including the world's best engineers) ever come up with a
functional
> dual-engine auto?
> 
> I commend your efforts, but unless you have some seriously complex
and well
> thought out designs to counter these and other issues, I'm betting
that your
> car under dual power will actually run -slower- than stock, with
dangerously
> unstable handling to boot.  I really hope you can prove me wrong,
but these
> are some serious engineering feats to surmount -- that have never
> successfully been surmounted before.  What are your thoughts on
overcoming
> these challenges?
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Strickland" <ihaveanaccount@xxxx>
> To: <DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Livin' the dream in 11472
> 
> 
> > C'mon Walt, think harder.
> >
> > The engines, and therefore wheels, are not connected, so there
will be no
> > drag or slip.  Consider that there are two engines, and also two
> > transmissions.  The engines will run at different RPMs, as will the
> > transmissions.  Both the transmissions are automatic, and will
shift when
> > they need to.
> >
> > Like stacking batteries, the energy will add, not subtract.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:46:00 -0400 "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxx> writes:
> > > Hi Rick,
> > >
> > > You're a maniac, what else is there to say?  (Sorry, couldn't help
> > > saying
> > > that.)
> > >
> > > So my question to you is: Isn't there going to be a problem with
> > > traction?
> > > I mean like consider what happens when you run a 4-wheel drive truck
> > > on a
> > > paved road.  People say not to do this because one set of wheels
> > > will tend
> > > to spin at a different rate than the other causing a set to drag or
> > > slip.
> > >
> > > Walt
> > >
> > > P.S. I want a ride too, provided that Greg goes first and survives.
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > >
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