[DMCForum] Re: ATTN: Jim S

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Internal combustion reality is: the longer the mixture burns, the
hotter the cylinder and its components will become.  Guess you've
never heard of someone burning a valve. I've also heard of people
melting holes in the tops of their pistons. BTW: It's usually the
"performance" crowd doing these things. Why don't you try an online
search for "excessive cylinder temperature" and see what you come up with.

Wasn't there a motor oil TV commercial once about "today's higher
temperature, higher rev'ing engines"? Castrol Syntec perhaps?

I do concede to Martin that American ignition advance curves in the
1970's were "mild", "lazy", "low" -- whichever adjective you choose --
compared to smaller engines. That's probably the only way
manufacturers were able to get away with advancing the base timing
spec. You have to remember: a big block idles 500+ RPM. Cruises a
little over 1,000. I don't think my 460's have ever exceeded 2,500
RPM, even with the transmission kicked down to 2nd gear.

Which is incidentally another reason they are so comfortable on the road.

Have you ever compared the operating temperature of a big block to a
little engine like the PRV? Is as different as night and day. You
can't blame all of that on aluminum vs cast iron -- some of the
difference is caused by spark advanced all the way to 120+ degrees
BTDC (I remember that figure from a website I found when this
controversy first errupted. Will try to find it again later tonight).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxx>
wrote:
> How can i possibly contest Bill's ass-dyno?
> 
> It's not my theory, it's internal combustion theory.  I'm not hurt
if you
> don't agree with it. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:30:35 -0000 "content22207"
> <brobertson@xxxx> writes:
> > My replacement PRV has what appears to be a timing scale transferred
> > from a DeLorean (has a notch at 13 degrees). Note that 10 degrees is
> > Volvo B27F spec (according to factory literature) as well as B27E 
> > and
> > Renault Z7V (R30). That notch has always perplexed me. Just to try
> > your theory out, I advanced to it before driving to Louie's house 
> > this
> > weekend. Valves didn't clatter a bit (93 octane) BUT:
> > - Power certainly wasn't increased
> > - Plugs came out white
> > - Engine ran too hot
> > I have Louie as an eyewitness.
> > 
> > With all due respects, your theory failed.
> > 
> > I think the fellow in Ohio who was marketing these engines 
> > transferred
> > DeLo timing scales to get then through emissions (are non-Lambda).
> > Timing to that notch has never produced anything but problems. He 
> > must
> > have gotten the initial index OK because engine performs like a 
> > champ
> > back at 10 degrees. Note that photographs of actual engines in Volvo
> > factory literature shows no notches on B27 timing scales. Am 
> > assuming
> > Renault Z7V is the same.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> > >--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Jim Strickland 
> > <ihaveanaccount@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > Isn't it ironic that the website that Martin told you to read 
> > months ago
> > > is now your vindication.  I knew you didn't read it!!!
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, the website does not say that advanced timing 
> > reduces
> > > horsepower.  It says that advance for the sake of advance is not
> > > necessarily a good thing.  He says that an engine that needs less
> > advance
> > > can achieve more horsepower, not that an engine with less advance 
> > will
> > > achieve more horsepower.  The difference is that he was talking 
> > about
> > > similar timing advance over different engines, where you are 
> > talking
> > > about changing timing advance in the same engine.
> > > 
> > > He also says that "Excessive advance is just as detrimental to 
> > power
> > > output ", but this is in reference to his earlier comment where 
> > the
> > > excessive advance caused knocking.  
> > > 
> > > You may be right, but I still think you're wrong; and this website 
> > does
> > > not help your case in my opinion.  
> > > 
> > > Jim
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:04:34 -0000 "content22207"
> > > <brobertson@xxxx> writes:
> > > > Re: Martin's Message #38006 on the List:
> > > > 
> > > > As much as I hate to gloat:
> > > > 
> > > > The third paragraph under the section titled "Ignition Timing" 
> > > > clearly
> > > > states what I have maintained all along -- that too much 
> > ignition
> > > > advance can REDUCE horsepower. You can't simply rotate the 
> > > > distributor
> > > > until the valves start to clatter, then back it off a degree or 
> > two.
> > > > That is NOT the point of optimum spark -- it is the point 
> > closest to
> > > > potential engine damage. Is a world of difference between the 
> > two.
> > > > 
> > > > I'd have given David Baker MORE than a pound for pointing that 
> > > > out...
> > > > 
> > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > #5939
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
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