--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "timnagin" <timnagin@...> wrote: > Even if the numbers were extremely low, wouldn't that at least reduce our > dependence on some foreign oil sources? Even if it is only 5%, but I am > sure it would be much higher than that, we will be reducing our reliance by > that amount. That also means more jobs within the US and less outsourcing, > right? At what cost? Seems to me that the benefits aren't all that great. What goal are we trying to accomplish by reducing dependency on foreign oil? I never meant to imply that we couldn't be independent of foreign oil. I just don't think domestic drilling is the "answer". It's a pathetic band-aid. Yeah, okay, it has its upsides, but it's more like a back pocket idea. We should be focusing on alternate energy sources, not just where we're going to get our next petroleum fix. I want to solve the energy problem, not just make gas cheaper. > >Those are vehicles that run on both regular unleaded AND E85. I think > >Bob was talking about E85-only engines. Obviously, the compression > >ratio of a FF engine is the same as an ordinary gasoline engine. > > That would be a FFV, or Flexible Fuel Vehicle, like my old 1999 Ranger. E85 > is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline so my understanding is any E85 capable > vehicle can run on just gasoline. Please correct me if I am wrong. > > Here is a short list of current E85 vehicles. > http://www.e85fuel.com/news/090407_2008_ffv_release/090407_2008_ffv_release. > htm Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Flex-fuel vehicles (like my old Taurus and my new Tahoe) are dual-fuel vehicles. Engineers don't sit down at a clean drawing board when they design those engines, because at the end of the day, they still have to run on regular old gasoline. They take an existing engine, give it a computer smart enough to "taste" the difference between the two fuels (and any continuously variable mixture of the two) and fuel components hardy enough to take the rigors of E85. It's a compromise, it's not optimal for E85-efficiency. It was my understanding that Bob was referring to engines that could be physically designed from scratch to be optimized to running E85 ONLY. I don't doubt that these kinds of engines could be more efficient that regular gas engines (but I don't actually know, just trying to clarify what I thought Bob was saying). > >>> Electric vehicles with solar, wind, PV or nuclear generation have > >>> an almost carbon neutral balance. Both of these technologies need > >>> to be pursued-quickly. > >> > >> Only if you completely ignore the manufacturing, shipping, > >> advertising, maintenance and everything else associated with it. > > > >What do you mean? These facets only contribute to carbon sinks if the > >technology used by them do. I think Bob is talking about a paradigm > >shift to new technology. That is, manufacturing, shipping, > >advertising and maintenance would use the newer, cleaner, > >carbon-neutral energy as well. > > Sure, but right now most used to make and transport E85 is the old way. > Right? Huh? Are we maybe talking about two different things here? I heard electric vehicles, solar, wind, photovoltaics and nuclear. Where did E85 come in? But in answer to your question, yes, E85 (and energy storage for the other technologies I was talking about) is currently transported the same old way, which contributes to atmospheric carbon and fossil fuel dependency. But surely that doesn't lessen the value or necessity of the concepts themselves. In my mind, it raises it. A paradigm shift to clean(er) energy sources will take care of its own manufacturing, shipping, etc. dirtiness. Regards, Jon Heese Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:DMCForum-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx mailto:DMCForum-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DMCForum-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/