[DMCForum] Re: Religion on the Forum (Warning: Denominational Protestant Theology)

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

WARNING: Denominational Protestant Theology Follows...

Did I miss something -- when were religion and politics banned from
the Forum?

Have been away from the computer for a couple of days, so I don't know
exactly where this thread started, but:

To correct a couple of misunderstandings before working my way backwards:

In Christianity, there is no possible way to "earn" your way into
Heaven. Can't be done -- no if's and's or but's about it. No matter
how hard you try, you will never "measure up" to God's standards.
That's the whole idea behind Grace (God gives you want you don't
deserve. In fact, He gives you quite the OPPOSITE of what you
deserve!). Anybody who confuses good works on Earth with life after
death is totally missing the point.

Christianity is not a "death" religion. What happens to you AFTER you
die has nothing to do with it. In fact that's the whole message of
this Easter Sunday -- don't devote a single thought to your life after
death. That was signed, sealed, and delivered in the Resurrection.
Every thought you devote to life after death is a thought you can not
devote to life BEFORE death. Jesus STARTED the transformation of this
broken world, but in three short years of ministry he sure didn't
FINISH it. That privilege (responsibility?) was passed to the
Christians who follow in his name. And only LIVING people can do such
(not many dead people assist in Kingdom building).

Christianity is a way to live your life. Don't worry about good works
-- as your life is refocused, they will inevitably follow as necessary
components of it.

Can non-Christians also do good works? Of course. Can God use
non-Christians as agents of change in this broken world? He can, and
He does -- I've seen it with my own eyes. Is Christianity really
necessary then? In my own life -- yes. In anybody else's life I can
not say because I am not them. But I do have a responsibility to make
the Christian religion available and accessible to others in the hope
that it may provide for them what it has provided for me. The last
thing I want to discover after my life on Earth is over is that I
missed an opportunity to bring God's Grace, manifested in the person
of Jesus, to someone who really needed it.

What about all these other religions? Can they ALL be wrong? Or right?
You'll never find that answer in a Christian Bible. Jesus was very
specific -- he described a particular life (for a particular purpose),
and explained that the only way to live such was through Him. If you
want what He described in the New *AND* Old Testaments, you've got to
go through Him. Period. But just as important as what he said is what
he didn't say. Jesus never uttered a single word about Buddhists,
Hindu's, Muslims, etc. The salvation messages of those religions will
never be found in a Christian Bible. In a Koran or Bhagavad Gita
perhaps, but never the Bible. Using a Bible to find Nirvana is as
pointless as using a math textbook to understand Shakespeare (and vice
versa). Any God who can make 6 billion different people can relate to
6 billion different people 6 billion different ways. He knows each of
us better than we know ourselves, and will "speak" in a voice best
able to build each relationship. The trick is to be listening when He
speaks to you, however that may be.

Another thought: God is big. Very big. And very intelligent. As such,
humans are on shaky ground whenever we try to tell God what He is
thinking. Of course we can't stay mute either -- that's a guaranteed
way to ensure that this broken world stays broken. But we always need
to be humble that our grand religious pronouncements remain rooted in
origin of their human utterances. Even the Bible itself is written by
humans (the only part of it written by God himself was broken by Moses
in a temper tantrum). Divinely inspired, but "penned" (the book of
Genesis predates literacy) by very imprefect humans. That's why I
don't get tied on knots over some of the discrepancies or omissions
within its pages. Could you really expect otherwise?

One last thought, then I'll end this overly long treatise: regarding
God's taxonomy of humans and "other" animals -- I humbly suggest
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 (in fact I recommend the whole book).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> I don't appriciate you attacking me, Walt. To say that since I do not
> share the same ideals as you do, that makes me the same as an animal,
> is totally childish of you. Because we don't agree, you try to to
> discredit  me as a person. And that I do not appriciate.
> 
> We have a strict understanding here, NOT to discuss either religion,
> nor politics. But if you want to goad me into an argument here, then
> sure, I'll feed the troll this one time.
> 
> Living a life of good deeds simply to buy one's own way into a
> celestial afterlife, is a very hollow, and selfish faith. One should
> do good deeds for others because we want to help them, and are
> genuinely concerned about them. Not because we desire fame or
> recognition, be it in this life, or the next.
> 
> The good books do contain wisdoms that people can, and should apply to
> their lives. Be it the Old Testament, the Quoran, the Torah, or even
> the Hagakure. I subscribe to some portion of all. And I occasionally
> seek them out for both direction and wisdom, just as I do others.
> 
> And as I continue down the path of my life, any and all acts that I do
> in the name of kindness, honor, and vengance I shall do, because I
> believe them to be the right things to do, for everyone in which they
> affect. Will I stumble sometimes? Will I fail sometimes? Yes, but I'll
> also succeed. And when I do fail, I will learn from those mistakes.
> And most importantly of all, I shall take full credit for my actions.
> These things that I do, I shall do because I believe them to be right.
> My good deeds shall be mine. I'm not making macaroni sculptures to try
> and please someone, with disregard to everyone else, simply for my own
> benefit. No. I'll do what I think is right, to the best of my
> abilities and my knowlege. And I will have the utmost regard in giving
> thought, and being aware of how my actions will affect others.
> 
> In other words, I'm just Robert. And if my actions someone work into
> some cosmic plan, or even if they don't. That's fine by me, because I
> don't care. Am I worried that my good deeds will be recognized, to
> show that I'm a good person? No. Why? No mix of words of philosphy can
> equal what I hold to be my own truth: That it's not my place to be
> concerned with such things. I can't spend my entire life worried about
> the next one, that I waste this one away on hollow deeds.
> 
> I don't simply want to be know as some guy who happened to do allot of
> good, but was a total bastard, and that alone grants me some favorable
> grace. I don't want that. I don't want to be judged alone by my deeds.
> I'm a person, an individual. Judge me for who I am, and all my
> characteristics and actions as a whole.
> 
> In otherwords, you don't know me, Walt. So don't try to pass
> judgement, nor attack me like you do.
> 
> -Robert
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxx> wrote:
> > > Ummm, yeah. I'm a much more simpler man.
> > 
> > Hey, we are talking about basic human concepts here.  To not
> > rationally understand the obvious is to lower yourself among
> > animals.  You have a higher brain.  Be a more complex man.
> > If I am the only man on top, I dont want to be alone here.
> > We should put everyone before ourselves insomuch as such is
> > Feasible.  Oh, you probably wouldn't understand...
> > 
> > Walt

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