RE: [DMCForum] Discrimination: Actually DeLorean related.

["timnagin" <timnagin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>From what I understand, Gary had to go through a lot of trouble to be
allowed to set up the website he did and use BTTF as a reference due to
legal reasons.  If this is used in anyway that Universal does not see fit
then they have the right to have it taken down.  Again, this is how I
understand this to work.  If this is true, this is what worries me and
possibly several other people about what you are doing.  If Universal
decides to pull the plug on this and prevent everyone from making these
props, you will have a lot of very unhappy people talking with you.  I would
be one of them :)

About the "not giving it away" thing, to be quite honest if you don't
understand that then no one can explain it to you.  The gratification some
people feel is in the pursuit of trying to find the parts and how to
recreate them, not the end result and not just re-engineering or reverse
engineering someone else's work.  The latter part is very easy and anyone
can do that.

Greg



-----Original Message-----
From: Videobob Moseley [mailto:videobob@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:29 PM
To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Discrimination: Actually DeLorean related.



My problems with Gary are totally different.
God damned that is a long story.

The thing is, if John had gone out and done what I did by getting his own
set of stripes
and making them like I did then I would have had a different attitude about
the whole thing.
It was the method that bothered me.
I think I explained that enough.
To be honest, I don't feel good about bad mouthing John but the subject came
to mind
and people asked me to elaborate on it so I did.
I regret that something stupid like this has damaged our relationship.
It wasn't without trying, I made calls and emails to John including driving
all the
way out there to talk to him face to face and try to work it out.
He simply told me "I am doing it and I don't care what you think".
I guess he assumed I would just take the defeat, tuck my tail between my
legs
and never mention it again.
Not my style.

As far as Gary goes, he was biased against me from the beginning because of
a disagreement
I had with his buddy Bruce.
I bought one of Bruce's Flux Capacitors and was a little disappointed with
it.
I thought it was goofy that he issues a "Certificate of Authenticity" with
it and claims
to build props for Universal Studios.
I questioned this because I kept finding so many inaccuracies with Bruce's
props.
So Bruce and others challenged me to do better, which is a challenge I
always take on.
So I built my own versions which I feel were not only more accurate but
about half the price.
The thing is, Gary, Bruce, myself and everyone else is replicating props
that we see in the movie.
So how is it that any of us could "steal" from one another?
There are plenty of people making their own props and selling them, but I am
the
one who is accused of "stealing"? What?
Mine are nothing like the others, because mine look like the one in the
movie and
the others out there I have seen look like something else.
Gary has a great little website where he is the king.
The last thing he wants is someone else like me who presents a threat to his
ego.

When I decided to do what all these other guys claim to do, by making a
website
that really does support the fans Gary felt it was the last straw.
He used to feel so powerful by keeping all the secrets and sources, so I
simply
made a website teaching how to make the props for pennies on the dollar, and
also
posted all of the printable images of BTTF props that are being sold by
everyone.

See for yourself, go look at Gary's site and then look at mine and see who's
is the most
helpful : http://www.bttfstuff.com

I am not surprised at all that there other BTTF guys would gang up on me,
I revealed that many of them are hording parts and hiding resources and
keeping all the
secrets. It is only after I reveal things that Gary or others post it up.
I have yet to see Gary offer up any tutorials or secret sources as I have on
how
to build props.
We will see.

This is the same problem I had on the DML.
He I am a nobody in the DeLorean world and I am posting articles in
magazines,
selling parts, offering upgrades and advice.
A few people took offense and it only takes a one person to write an opinion
and hundreds to read it.
Out of almost 1500 members there is only a handful of people who live all
day long
on there, and along I come and chime in like I am one of the guys and no one
knows who I am.
I tend to jump head first into things and it get's me into trouble.
Instead of coming in with my hat in my hand, I walk in the place like a big
shot.
I am trying to learn to be more tactful about this but it is hard because I
am used to being the center of attention.

Who else would drive around is such a pretentious car?
This is why there is so much pissing contests on these sites, we are all
type A personalities
clashing with one another like mountain goats.
If any of us were meek and shy we would be on the Ford Escort website right
now.

;P

- VB




>From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [DMCForum] Discrimination: Actually DeLorean related.
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:15:33 -0600
>
>I will have to believe John Hervey over this whole story because i have
>been on Gary's BTTF forum and i seen how you have taken others ideas
>and sold them as your own, thats why you got banned twice from that
>forum and the final time was for good. I know you came out with the
>side stripes for sale before John Hervey, John Hervey only did to you
>what you did to others on Gary's BTTF forum.
>
>Personally i dont know the whole story and it is none of my business, i
>just know from all of your doings on the DML and Gary's BTTF forum you
>had this coming for a while now.
>
>Mark V
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 01:53  AM, John Hervey wrote:
>
> >
> > Bob, I won't pleasure you in a answer over the forum, but I will say
> > this.
> > It would kill you to tell the truth.
> > John Hervey
> > P.S. Did see a post on the DML that you said there were 12 cars at the
> > gathering. There were 7.
> >
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: Videobob Moseley [mailto:videobob@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> >   Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:09 PM
> >   To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >   Subject: RE: [DMCForum] Discrimination: Actually DeLorean related.
> >
> >
> >   Please explain your question to me again, because I am not sure I
> >   understand.
> >   Are you saying that there are vendors who will refuse service to you
> > based
> >   on their
> >   religious or personal beliefs?
> >
> >   I know John Hervey has told me that he doesn't want to sell me parts
> > because
> >   of
> >   a dissagreement we had, whcih is stupid because I spent many
> > thousands of
> >   dollars
> >   with the man.
> >   I paid him over $400 to do a "tune up" on my car, when I picked it
> > up I
> > was
> >   missing
> >   my set of unused black stripes that was in the car, he told me that
> > he
> >   borrowed them
> >   to "show them to a friend", about a month after I released the sale
> > of my
> >   stripes
> >   he offered hiis versions (ripped off from me) at a cheaper rate.
> >   I told him that was not a nice thing to do to a friend.
> >   He replied, "It's only business Bob".
> >   So I announced that any price that John sold his stripes for, I
> > would beat
> >   it.
> >   John got upset with me and I replied: "It's only business John".
> >   He got miffed and told me not to buy from him any more.
> >   His loss.
> >   I was a loyal customer, and a good friend.
> >   We shared the cost of a hotel room at Pigeon Forge, and shared
> > booths, I
> >   helped him
> >   load his stuff and watched his table and even helped him sell when
> > ever I
> >   could.
> >   He has been to my house and we have had dinner together many times.
> >   His actions were uncalled for and for no reason other than greed.
> >   It's just dumb, because I spent a lot of money with him and brought
> > him
> >   customers
> >   and now he has ruined this relationship over nothing, because as far
> > as I
> >   know he hasn't
> >   sold any of his srtipes to anyone.
> >   However I have sold quite a few.
> >   I have offered to forgive him and forget about it.
> >   I have not heard back from him about it.
> >   Shame or pride, it is a fault.
> >
> >   I have no problem selling to anyone.
> >   Even if they don't like me, not so much for the money, but
> > maybe....just
> >   maybe
> >   if I provide them with good service and a good product they might see
> >   another side
> >   of me and change their minds.
> >   Hey, I'm a nice enough guy and I think my prices are resonable in
> >   consideration
> >   of retail practices.
> >   Sure I mark things up for a profit but that's how it works in all
> > business.
> >
> >   So I will sell to anyone who needs help, and I will always answer the
> > phone
> >   and be a friend to anyone who asks.
> >   I don't hold grudges like some people do.
> >
> >   Does this address the issue you were asking?
> >
> >   I think the most documented cases of DeLorean Parts Discrimination
> > would
> > be
> >   with D1.
> >   I have heard about this from others too.
> >   Rob Grady and Don Stegar have both been accused of this in the past.
> >   Rob told me that "unless I buy all of my parts from him, he would
> > not sell
> >   me parts
> >   and peices individually" although I have bought some of his
> > accesories off
> >   his website.
> >   This costed him many thousands of dollars as I relied on DMCH and
> > they
> > came
> >   through big time.
> >   Stephen did a great job of stealing my business away from others.
> >   Stephen has taken the time to call me and address problems I am
> > having and
> >   offer solutions.
> >   No other vendor has ever done that....shit, half the time you can't
> > get
> >   another vendor
> >   on the phone!
> >
> >   So I hope this answers some questions for you.
> >   - VB
>

---

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