[DMCForum] Re: Videobob making friends (pasted version)

["lakelanier20" <derek4567@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Ok, I know it's long, but it's worth it.  If you MUST read 
selectively, then read towards the end.  But yeah, here's a crappy 
pasted version since that forum requires a log-in.

-Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------


POST BY OWNER/ADMIN OF BTTF PARTS BOARD:

Yup, its that horizontal scroll thing... Thats why I request the 550 
size. I have the same issue on another message board that run with 
the PHBB encoding... Its not my board, they just had the same issue 
with slightly oversize images... I usually use 650 for my images on 
other boards, but even here, I have to play by the rules and go with 
550... Thats not saying you can't link to a larger image. 

As for the sale thread, this was scotts discussion thread about the 
units HE was building up and it evolved into a presale thread for his 
units. I felt that was a fair and natural discussion of the topic. 
Your review of the unit was also on topic but it took a wrong turn 
when you started to sell it off. 

You are the one piggybacking on yet ANOTHER member's thread to sell 
something of yours. It is not that hard to go over to the FS threads 
and post your item up - feel free to do it. I simply don't care for 
people using the captive audience of a discussion thread to plug 
their FS items... 

-Gary
_________________
-Gary Weaver II 
Owner and Administrator 
www.bttfparts.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------



POST BY VIDEOBOB:


I agree that I should have listed my post in the sale section, 
but in retrospect the same should be true for Scott if those are the 
rules. 
However I think that your assesment is a little harsh of my actions, 
I am not piggybacking, or selling something of mine.... 
it is still Scott's product after all, and I was simply explaining 
how it works as compared to his new units, and just as Scott is 
helping to provide much 
needed props to the fans, I thought I would offer it to other members 
here on the baord before putting on eBay. 
I was not trying to do anything more than get what I paid for it 
and I also did not see my sale as a threat to Scott since he has no 
more units for sale. 
I figured someone out there would need it. 

It's all symantics anyway, I won't argue with the boss. 
I will make sure to post any and all items for sale in the "for sale" 
section. 
I have no problem following the rules, or even being yelled at for 
not following them however I could do without being cast in a 
unfair light. 
I am not doing anything any different than any other fan here that 
has a passion for building these props and sharing them. 
It's a loose / loose situation for a builder. 
If I simply give away all the information and sell the stuff for 
nothing 
then all the other prop builders consider me a scab. 
If I sell them for a decent price to give them value, others call me 
a schill. You can't win for loosing. 

I just want to build my time machine, and in the process of learning 
I like to share my props, and as you well know it takes a lot of time 
to build this stuff and the parts are expensive. 
the best way to prevent competition is to build the best product 
and offer it for the best price. 
For instance, you have told me that you would not sell me certain 
items 
in the past because you were afraid I would reverse engineer them, 
copy and sell them. 
That's not true, I would NEVER directly rip someone off. 
As an example, I build Drive Circuits, and so does Bruce, Doug and 
a few others out there. We all used the film as a reference and use 
obvious materials to do it. That is fair. 
We all played by the same rules. 
I would NEVER take one of your parts and copy it directly such as 
making a mold of it and duplicating the casts. 
Just because several of us make the same props does not mean we stole 
them from each other....we all stole them from the movie. 
I was the FIRST person on this board to offer something for sale, and 
that was my 2015 plates, I had a stack of them ready to sell before 
you 
ever offered yours, yet in a private message you told me that you 
think 
I would steal your "design". 
This makes no sense to me Gary. 
I have sent you countless friendly letters asking that we work 
together 
on some projects and you have ignored every one. 
I have managed to become friendly with most all the other builders 
and have offered to build and sell certain items on a gentlemans 
agreement as to avoid stepping on each others toes or under cuttung 
eachother. For instance, I told Bruce that I would not sell any of my 
parts in "working" condition so as to allow him to remain the king of 
the high end props, I think his stuff is the best around and I don't 
want to interfere with what he does but on the same token I want 
to have the right to participate as well. 
I feel we can all work together. 
...but back to the dealings with you and I, it would be in your best 
interest to simply sell the items I need to me (or who ever) and make 
a few bucks for your self and squelch the need, otherwise a highly 
motivated individual ike myself would be forced to make or have made 
the parts 
thar I need for my car and in the process make up a huge batch of 
them 
and sell them to recover R&D costs....like my other stuff. 

I am not new to all this stuff, my whole house is covered in just 
about 
everything that is BTTF, I have a BTTF pinball machine here in my 
office, 
and more prop reproductions that just about anyone else I have met. 
..not to mention the DeLorean I drive everyday. 
Not bragging, just explaining that I am a very serious BTTF fan. 
I have talked with Bob Gale and now I am doing Jeffery Weissman's 
website updates and demo reel. 
This stuff is in my blood and I ain't going away! -LOL 

I hope you aren't offended by my comments, I am not looking for 
an arguement. I am very impressed by your work and I have the 
greatest respect for you and your position in the community however 
I just want to be better understood as I am so often not. 
I feel that "we" as well as the whole BTTF community suffers 
when we are not all working together. 

- Videobob


------------------------------------------------------------------




POST BY OWNER/ADMIN OF BTTF PARTS BOARD:



{
videobob wrote: 
"I agree that I should have listed my post in the sale section, 
but in retrospect the same should be true for Scott if those are the 
rules."
}

------And I have already said that I felt Scott was OK in this thread 
since 
HE was starting in the thread with the R@D of his new unit and the 
presales evolved from that discussion. In the future I'll try to do a 
better job of observing when a development thread becomes a for sale 
thread and move it appropriately. 


{
Quote: 
"However I think that your assesment is a little harsh of my actions, 
I am not piggybacking, or selling something of mine.... 
it is still Scott's product after all, and I was simply explaining 
how it works as compared to his new units, and just as Scott is 
helping to provide much 
needed props to the fans, I thought I would offer it to other members 
here on the baord before putting on eBay. 
I was not trying to do anything more than get what I paid for it 
and I also did not see my sale as a threat to Scott since he has no 
more units for sale. 
I figured someone out there would need it."
}
 
------And all I asked was for you to be more aware of WHERE you put 
your 
for sale posts. This is the second instance and I felt I would let 
you and the other members know in the public forum. I felt the 
message was rather direct and to point. 


{
Quote: 
"It's all symantics anyway, I won't argue with the boss. 
I will make sure to post any and all items for sale in the "for sale" 
section." 
}

------Again, thats all that was requested. No drama aside from your 
posts... 


{
Quote: 
"I have no problem following the rules, or even being yelled at for 
not following them however I could do without being cast in a 
unfair light." 
}

------If you consider being called out for posting in an incorrect 
lcoation 
being "cast in an unfair light" then you are REALLY gonna cringe by 
the time I'm finished with this post. 


{
Quote: 
"I am not doing anything any different than any other fan here that 
has a passion for building these props and sharing them. 
It's a loose / loose situation for a builder. 
If I simply give away all the information and sell the stuff for 
nothing 
then all the other prop builders consider me a scab. 
If I sell them for a decent price to give them value, others call me 
a schill. You can't win for loosing."
}
 
------Have we had anyone here call you a shill? If there was, I must 
have 
missed it? Please post to me were they are and I'll look into it. 

There are plenty of other builders out here who are making their own 
parts, plus one or two extra to recoup costs - there is absolutely 
nothing wrong with it. Look at Ryder, Scott, Bruce, or any other 
builders and they are all welcome to do whatever they want there 
along as they keep their actions in check and show the proper respect 
to other builders. 


{
Quote: 
"I just want to build my time machine, and in the process of learning 
I like to share my props, and as you well know it takes a lot of time 
to build this stuff and the parts are expensive. 
the best way to prevent competition is to build the best product 
and offer it for the best price. 
For instance, you have told me that you would not sell me certain 
items 
in the past because you were afraid I would reverse engineer them, 
copy and sell them." 
}

------Thats right I did refuse to sell you a 2015 part 1 plate and am 
VERY 
hesitant to sell you ANYTHING. 

Forgive me for thinking it would only be a matter of weeks before you 
popped up with you own part I style plates. 


{
Quote: 
"That's not true, I would NEVER directly rip someone off. 
As an example, I build Drive Circuits, and so does Bruce, Doug and 
a few others out there. We all used the film as a reference and use 
obvious materials to do it. That is fair." 
}

------So... you're sitting here telling everyone that you used the 
films as 
reference for your units? I guess all those photos you took in Pigeon 
Forge of Bruce's components were just for your memory book? And you 
watched a special version of the film that happened to replicate the 
EXACT flaws in labeling seen on Bruces production units? What a 
coincidence. 


{
Quote: 
"We all played by the same rules. 
I would NEVER take one of your parts and copy it directly such as 
making a mold of it and duplicating the casts." 
}

------Probably because you have to stick to recreating/duplicating 
video 
files, found components and paper props. I'm sure if you were into 
resin casting there's no telling what we would see around here from 
you. 


{
Quote: 
"Just because several of us make the same props does not mean we 
stole 
them from each other....we all stole them from the movie." 
}

------INCORRECT and I'll be happy to re-educate you here. We did not 
STEAL 
them from the movie as you suggest. We spent time, effort and 
manhours to recreate the parts/components from the film that we love. 
There have been no issues brought up from Universal or any BTTF 
Rights holders over this hobby. The minute they do - this board is 
done with per their request. 

However, among builders we have done the best to work TOGETHER to 
offer parts for other enthusiasts at very little markup. You are the 
one coming in with items and parts you HEAVILY referenced from 
members of this site in DIRECT competition with their efforts. No 
amount of ass kissing can erase that fact. 


{
Quote: 
"I was the FIRST person on this board to offer something for sale, 
and 
that was my 2015 plates, I had a stack of them ready to sell before 
you 
ever offered yours, yet in a private message you told me that you 
think 
I would steal your "design". 
This makes no sense to me Gary." 
}

------Actually you WEREN'T the first to offer something here. I was 
offering T-Shirts and Bobby made the first official post in the Stuff 
for Sale section with his Part III Train Model. 

Regarding the plates. My plates were SUBSTANTIALLY different than 
yours, Based on a direct recreation of the original plate, AND very 
limited in supply. NO ONE had made a movie accurate Part 1 2015 plate 
before mine and I decided to protect that investment in time, effort 
and material against someone I did not feel I could trust - and to 
date you still have not changed my opinion of you and your "efforts". 


{
Quote: 
"I have sent you countless friendly letters asking that we work 
together 
on some projects and you have ignored every one." 
}

------Sorry, but I have no desire to work together with you on 
ANYTHING. 
Simple as that. Considering how you went off when I brought up your 
actions on the DMC Mailing list I wasn't inclined to much more 
interaction. 


{
Quote: 
"I have managed to become friendly with most all the other builders 
and have offered to build and sell certain items on a gentlemans 
agreement as to avoid stepping on each others toes or under cuttung 
eachother. For instance, I told Bruce that I would not sell any of my 
parts in "working" condition so as to allow him to remain the king of 
the high end props, I think his stuff is the best around and I don't 
want to interfere with what he does but on the same token I want 
to have the right to participate as well." 
}

------Well and good, but you still need to learn a thing or two about 
decorum on a PRIVATELY owned message board. 


{
Quote: 
"I feel we can all work together. 
...but back to the dealings with you and I, it would be in your best 
interest to simply sell the items I need to me (or who ever) and make 
a few bucks for your self and squelch the need, otherwise a highly 
motivated individual ike myself would be forced to make or have made 
the parts 
thar I need for my car and in the process make up a huge batch of 
them 
and sell them to recover R&D costs....like my other stuff." 
}

------Hmmm, was that an offer to work together or a not-so-thinly-
veiled 
threat? I can't help but think it was the latter. You are DEFINITELY 
not winning friends here... 


{
Quote: 
"I am not new to all this stuff, my whole house is covered in just 
about 
everything that is BTTF, I have a BTTF pinball machine here in my 
office, 
and more prop reproductions that just about anyone else I have met. 
..not to mention the DeLorean I drive everyday. 
Not bragging, just explaining that I am a very serious BTTF fan. 
I have talked with Bob Gale and now I am doing Jeffery Weissman's 
website updates and demo reel. 
This stuff is in my blood and I ain't going away! -LOL" 
}

------And I've held Kevin Pike's Emmy and the ORIGINAL scripts for 
the film-
 what does it have to do with anything? We are all fanatics for this 
film and car - otherwise we wouldn't be here. There is no reasons to 
go around here touting your wares just to impress... Spare us the 
resume... 


{
Quote: 
"I hope you aren't offended by my comments, I am not looking for 
an arguement. I am very impressed by your work and I have the 
greatest respect for you and your position in the community however 
I just want to be better understood as I am so often not. 
I feel that "we" as well as the whole BTTF community suffers 
when we are not all working together. 

- Videobob" 
}

------I'm not offended at all - this is perfectly natural for people 
with 
different opinions. We are talking about it and thats what matters. 

I think the board is a perfect example of how we can work toghther. 
Its also a great example of how we look out for each other in the 
wake of a possible threat to that existence. 

Please don't get me wrong. You are more than WELCOME here and have 
been since you joined up. HOWEVER, your actions like everyone elses 
here are watched by other members and myself. IF you behave like an 
opportunist expect to get called out. Recast or reverse engineer 
other's work and you can expect to be taken to task. 

Show some respect for the membership, this board, and it's rules. You 
WILL recieve the same in return...
_________________
-Gary Weaver II 

Owner and Administrator 
www.bttfparts.com

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