[DMCForum] The Village Idiot Returns (Religious Controversy)

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Heard through the grapevine that a bit of a religious tiff has broken
out on the Forum (haven't been hanging out over here since CheckSix3
threw all the patio furniture into the pool, so to speak). Are so many
messages that I don't know where to start. Guess I'll pick the latest
and work my way backwards.

First and foremost, God is very big. Is a bit precarious to speak for
"Him" (gender is of course an Earthly concept, but our language is the
only tool we have to use in this endeavor -- don't get strung out on
semantics). Yet Christians believe that is exactly what He has
commanded us to do. So we boldly go forth, stumbling every step of the
way (the original 12 disciples -- hand picked by God on Earth himself
-- were bumblers too. Presumably God knew what He was getting into
when he decided to use human beings as his agents of change).

At the end of Matthew's Gospel, Jesus gives some instructions
Christians call the "Great Commission". Basically, we're to "make
disciples" of people throughout the world (different wording may be
used depending on the translation -- original was in Greek -- but idea
is the same). This has caused problems ever since (2000 years). Some
Christians have tried to make disciples with force or intimidation.
Others have tried it with bombast and harangues. Some have even tried
to morph or change the religion beyond the limits of its fundamental
principles. Here's my take (I love it when I get to speak for God):

If a tactic to "make" a disciple of someone generates quite the
opposite reaction, that tactic would best be jetisoned in favor of an
alternative. God gave me a brain and commanded me to use it. Surely
there are a myriad of ways to accomplish the same thing. The last
thing I want to discover when all is revealed is that a solution was
there and I simply failed to recognize it.

Don't want to preach you all into a coma (the Apostle Paul did that
once, killing a poor boy who fell asleep and fell out a second story
window), but there are some fundamental Christian concepts others
should know before the Forum controversy progresses much further:
- Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims (except for some vague references to
Ishmael's children), etc are never mentioned in Christian scripture.
The books simply do not apply to them. In the Bible God describes a
salvation through Jesus. If that is what you want for yourself, you
must follow it closely. If you instead want a Buddhist "salvation",
don't go looking for it in the Bible -- it isn't there. Read the Pali
Canon. If you want Hindu nirvana, again the Bible can't help you. Read
the Bhagavad Gita. Etc.
- Christians *MUST* share their faith. One of our fundamental
commandments is not to hide it like a candle under a basket. This
doesn't mean we foist it on others. But we do clearly identify
ourselves (that's the purpose of the crosses some of us wear), tell
others we have a story and invite them to hear it, try to behave as
Jesus behaved, thus modeling Christianity for observers, etc.
- Christianity is exciting. REALLY exciting. Sometimes in our
exuberance we say or do the wrong thing. Please forgive us (as we try
to be forgiving ourselves). Christians believe that God Himself comes
into our bodies. This makes for a potent brew -- the power of God and
human fallibility! Channeled correctly, it will change the world.
Unfortunately, Christians often misstep along the way.
- Christians come in every flavor. Look at all the variations of
sanctuary architecture, worship style, symbolism, etc. Any God who can
make 6 billion people can talk to 6 billion people 6 billion different
ways. The secret is to be listening when he talks to YOU (ecumenical
Christians believe he sometimes uses a Baptist voice, other times a
Roman Catholic voice, etc).

If anyone's interested, I am currently a member of the Presbyterian
Church USA. Grew up in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church. Have no idea
which denomination I'll belong to decades from now, but 100% guarantee
it will be organized somehow.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Farrar Russell Carroll Hudkins"
<fhudkins@xxxx> wrote:
> I think part of the problem is that you refer to anyone who is not a
> Christian as a "non-believer". (See below.) That would be like me
> calling you a "non-thinker". It's just not polite. Non-Christians
> believe plenty of things.
>  
> --Farrar
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ryanpwright [mailto:yahoo1@xxxx]
> Sent: Thu 9/2/2004 1:58 PM
> To: DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [DMCForum] Re: To Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "John Dore" <dmcjohn@xxxx> wrote:
> > You know, you are not achieving anything by "witnessing" here. For
> > every pro-god speech you and others make, there are plenty of people
> > willing to reply with the other side of the unending argument,
> > thereby cancelling out any good you may think you are doing.
> 
> It's not a matter of simply making "pro-god speeches". Jeremiah is
> rightly upset about being constantly attacked.
> 
> A month or so ago I shared my story of how I came to own my DeLorean,
> by listening to and understanding God's will. I didn't preach or
> witness, and I didn't come out of the blue with it - it was a reply to
> a statement that "I'm not waiting for God to provide me with a
> DeLorean."
> 
> I was outright attacked by several members here who felt the need to
> lecture me on the existence of God.
> 
> The non-believers here must accept that God is a part of some of our
> lives and let it go. Simply stated, there are going to be completely
> benign references to God here whether anyone likes it or not. I may
> mention spiritual guidance or God in a DeLorean related conversation
> (example: "Replacing x went quite a bit easier after some prayer.")
> because that's what I believe and there are others here who share that
> belief. It is inappropriate to ask myself or anyone else to never
> mention God. This is our way of life and if you can't respect that,
> don't read it, or at least restrain yourself from posting a snide
> remark.
> 
> I understand, "Please don't come here and preach to us", but you know
> what? Making casual references to beliefs that guide our daily lives
> isn't preaching. It's perfectly normal conversation to a Christian.
> None of us have criticized anyone here, we haven't put up a "holier
> than thou" attitude, we haven't said "You're going to hell if you
> don't follow God", etc.
> 
> If people really want these conversations to end, then stop with the
> anti-God attacks. Learn to peacefully co-exist with your fellow
> Christians and quit freaking out every time you see words relating to
> a spiritual life. We tolerate you just fine, so how about a little
> tolerance - which non-believers often accused Christians of lacking -
> from your side?
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> 
> 
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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