[DMCForum] Re: Intel on Iraq. Where do you get it, really?

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Please note: no one is criticizing the military. We are criticizing
its civilian leadership for misusing such a valuable resource.

The days of spitting on returning vets are thankfully long gone.

As a member of the voting public that ostensibly elected the current
administration, it is my right and privilege to question how it uses
all national assets: parks & wildlife refuges, national
infrastructure, diplomatic missions, and yes, the military.

Considering the casualties, bizarre mobilizations (has anyone noticed
George the Younger is now pressing into service ex-soldiers who
haven't worn a uniform in years and tip the upper limits of age
appropriateness), dangerous precedent of violating international
treaties to which we are signatory, etc, etc, etc, an objective
observer would have to conclude the administration has totally misused
the military entrusted to it.

BTW: Until its WMD claims were exposed as false, not once did the
administration ever mention invading Iraq to accomplish humanitarian
good. Every single pre-invasion protestation revolved around weapons,
and programs, that simply did not exist. Makes the civilian leadership
look reckless now.

Most Americans want to see their soldiers (sailors, airmen) PROPERLY
cared for. That includes buying them equipment they truly need (not
Star Wars), paying them fairly (I live within earshot of Ft. Bragg,
where a fantastic percentage of the soldiers receive welfare
assistance and live in substandard housing -- rediculous), not
treating the VA like a care denying HMO (doubly rediculous), and above
all: not mobilizing them on a whim or wild goose chase.

Members of the armed forces are more than numbers on a page. They are
more than chits on a war games table. They are living breathing human
beings with families and futures. Elected leaders -- who just happen
to stay at home when the military is mobilized -- forget this at their
own peril at the next election. LBJ found out the hard way. Was a nail
in Jimmy Carter's political coffin (totally ill advised hostage rescue
attempt). We'll see what happens November 2.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "James Wallen" <james.a.wallen@xxxx>
wrote:
> Okay, so I just caught up on all the posts from the last few days as 
> I'[ve been busy with school.  It is just too funny (and irritating) 
> to hear all the garbage about Iraq.  Insider info...I WAS THERE.  
> Believe me, I know what's up.
> 
> Innocent civilians?  Uh, sure.  From what I saw, there weren't many 
> innocent civilians killed, by OUR soldiers.  MANY were killed or 
> wounded when we (coalition soldiers) were fired on or attacked by 
> Iraqi soldiers (or whatever is left of them).  If you're holding a 
> weapon, your GUILTY.  Information was put out (quite well in fact) 
> not to fire weapons around soldiers, and to generally use your head.
> 
> The torture of innocents?  I saw evidence of it, but nothing live 
> thank God.  How about Saddam cutting off water supply to villages 
> and destroying irrigation systems for the farmland in the south of 
> Iraq?  Did anyone hear about this?  My unit ran over 400 missions in 
> the An Nasiriyah area bringing food, water and medical supplies to 
> villages in that area and the hospitals in the city itself.  My unit 
> crossed the border April 5th, 2003, about a week and a half after 
> the war started.  When we got to An Nasiriyah, the hospitals had 
> little or no supplies, schools weren't open and there was no power, 
> water or ANYTHING for these people to survive on.  Over the next few 
> months we got the power stations up and running, started installing 
> REAL plumbing in villages, got the hospitals, schools and businesses 
> back up and running, and GREATLY improved the standard of living as 
> it was BEFORE the U.S. got there.
> 
> Tell me about what you actually saw about how wrong it is to be 
> there and I'll tell you about being cheered as we rolled into cities 
> and villages helping the Iraqi people.  I'll tell you about how the 
> soldiers were actually treated in that horrible ambush in An 
> Nasiriyah last March.  I'll tell you about the SOCCER FIELD where 
> our soldiers were buried in shallow graves by their killers.  I'll 
> tell you about 140 degree heat and pain like you've never known.  
> Why, because they needed help.  
> 
> The United States has become the wealthiest, most powerful nation in 
> the world.  We really don't have the choice anymore if we are going 
> to help out those countries in need.  It's become our responsibilty 
> to help those that can't help themselves.  We do have the choice to 
> pick our fights strategically.  Korea isn't over.  It's been going 
> on for 50 years.  Kosovo?  Still there.  Bosnia?  Still there.  
> Notice a trend?
> 
> Since when do the terrorists not have fighter planes...since they 
> buried them in the desert maybe?  No lasers?  Uh, got news for you 
> buddy.  They do.  Oh yeah, they've got night vision too.  Not many, 
> and not as advanced as ours, but still pretty damn good.  To be 
> honest, my $3000 set of NVG's weren't as fantastic as they're made 
> out to be.  Range isn't that great, nor is depth perception, but you 
> learn to deal with that.  
> 
> Wanna talk about weapons?  They're damn good about IED's.  We didn't 
> roll out on missions until the sun came up because you can spot them 
> much better during the day, and the nuts are all out at night 
> setting them up.  Being that first convoy or mission in the morning 
> isn't that great.  Ever seen an up-armored Humvee opened up like a 
> can of sardines and killing a soldier inside?  I have.  Not pretty.  
> Seen an innocent man burned on over 95% of his body because he was 
> working his embassy when it was bombed?  Not pretty.  Bet you didn't 
> see that on the news.  How about all the innocent civilians that 
> were blown up because they happened to be in the area when a suicide 
> bomber hit or an IED intended for coalition forces hit a civilian 
> vehicle?  Never hear much about that.  Good old press, nothing but 
> negative.  Did you hear about the missiles, RPG's, mortars and small 
> arms fire that Abu Ghraib prison took 3-4 times a week?  NO.  How 
> about the soldiers injured during some of the riots?  I know one of 
> them.  
> 
> Just recently started releasing busloads of prisoners?  Right!  You 
> CLEARLY know NOTHING of what really has been going on!  I can 
> PERSONALLY vouch that we've been releasing prisoners since September 
> on 2003!  I KNOW it's been longer than that!  I still can't go into 
> much detail, but on any given day there were 15-20 prisoners 
> released.  The greatest load I personally escorted was about 75.  
> This was way back in January.  It wasn't busses either.  Know what a 
> Deuce & 1/2 is?  Imagine standing room only on 2 of them with 
> cheering happy guys surrounded by 3 humvees of soldiers protecting 
> THEM.  We drove to our dropoff location, they got off and many 
> family members were there to meet them.  
> 
> 
> <SNIP>  Calling the lost troops 'unnecessary' is irreverent and 
> grossly
> unpatriotic.  They gave their lives in pursuits to protect the rest 
> of
> us.  <SNIP>
> 
> Thanks Jim.
> 
> Abu Ghraib, the scariest 5-6 months of my life.  12 hour days, 
> mortar attacks 3-4 times a week, and nothing to do but duck and 
> cover.  That's life.  Sure you might die, but if you heard the 
> explosion...you're still alive.  After 12 months and a week in Iraq, 
> I'm SO happy to be home.  Now I pray for my brother to come home 
> too.  It's a dirty ugly job, but who's going to do it?  I lost a 
> year of my life in the desert and I'll never get it back.  I know in 
> my heart that what I did was good, and I helped people.  Talk all 
> the crap you want.  If you weren't there and you don't have anything 
> constructive to say, then quit crying.  I'm proud that I had the 
> chance to save countless lives in Iraq and protect our country (even 
> if it's effects aren't immediate) and our way of life.  I'm now 
> enjoying the rights that many of us seem to take for granted.
> 
> Back to hunting for my black interior, 5 spd, gas flap hood equipped 
> D, and lurking the forum.

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