[DMCForum] Religion Continued (Ryan)

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Bad news: Old Testament is every bit as Christian as the New. Jesus
did NOT come to negate or otherwise do away with it (Matthew 5:17). He
came to fulfill Jewish anticipation of the Messiah -- a persistent
theme throughout early books of the Bible, which we share with the
Tanakh. In fact, how many people recognize that Jews and Christians
are even today looking towards the same event: future arrival of the
Messiah? (Jews are looking for him to come the first time, Christians
are looking for him to come again).

"Old Testament" and "New Testament" are technically the "Old Covenant"
and "New Covenant". Check out Jeremiah 31:22, 31-34.

Jesus was very Jewish. That's why he was in Jerusalem for Passover. By
definition he couldn't have been a Christian until AFTER the
resurrection (Christians believe in a resurrected Savior). 

God is revealed differently in the Old Testament for several reasons:
- Human capacity to understand him was more limited
- Jews were living a violent existence of ongoing warfare (curiously
they depended on their enemies to make their weapons -- 1 Samuel
13:19-20). This was reflected in their writings
- Quite simply, God was doing what God needed to do at that time. Just
imagine trying to convince an ancient Israelite to turn the other
cheek and love the Philistines!
 
For fun contrast crowd reaction to God as revealed in Exodus 19:18
versus Matthew 5:1-2.

Re: Jesus "taking away" human sin: God and sin simply do not mix.
Can't happen. It's just like oil and water. God's perfection
unequivocally separates Him from sinfulness. The problem is: human
beings are sinful. Always have been. Always will be. (Jesus didn't
take that away). This means that we will be forever separated from God
-- without a catalyst (Jesus). That's the big deal of the Temple
curtain tearing in two at his death (Mark 15:38). Remember: God
resided (Ark of the Covenant) in the Holiest of Holies, on the other
side of that curtain. Only the high priest was allowed in there -- God
was separated from everyone else by the curtain. His death fixed that,
forever.

Being a Christian is no silver bullet. Making a commited decision to
yield control of your earthly life to God will not innoculate you from
harm, hardship, or other nastiness. In fact it may well make them
WORSE as He leads you to places and situations where your service is
needed most (usually not the kind of places characterized as peaceful
and tranquil). But you'll never be alone. God not only directs your
call, he girds you for the task, catches your back thoughout, picks
you up and comforts you if you fall, or congratulates and validates
you if you don't. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ryanpwright" <yahoo1@xxxx> wrote:
> > Farrar, every single one of the things you posted up to the Jesus
> > quotations were Old Testament, meaning Jewish, meaning before Jesus.
> 
> Right. I was about to say the same thing. I probably should have said
> "New Testament" in my previous response. This is the new covenant with
> Jesus. I suppose you can look at it as "the new way we do things
> around here."
> 
> The God of the Old Testament was an angry and vengeful God. Jesus
> changed that by taking away our sin. Through Him we are now seen as
> "worthy" enough to enter Heaven.
> 
> The rest of this message is a response to Farrar:
> 
> >> My point was that you can take any reading you want from various 
> >> portions of any holy book and use it to justify anything
> 
> You're absolutely right. There are quite a few various "Christian"
> groups who see things very differently from one another. It all
> depends on your interpretation of the Bible. Two people can read a
> given passage and come away with two very different ideas about what
> it meant.
> 
> There is ample evidence throughout the New Testament of Jesus'
> behavior and what he requires of us. Nobody could make a rational case
> that it would be right in the eyes of God to go out and harm others.
> It's like these nutcases killing abortion doctors in the "name of
> God." The Christian God that I know and believe in does not support
> their actions, and no rational Christian would support them, either. 
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> 
> --- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "supremeadmiralsenn"
> <AdmiralSenn@xxxx> wrote:
> > Okay, now I get to un-lurk myself for this list.
> > 
> > Farrar, every single one of the things you posted up to the Jesus
> > quotations were Old Testament, meaning Jewish, meaning before Jesus.
> > 
> > Plus, if God says to do it, I think it's okay. Best not to mess with
> > the big guy.
> > 
> > And as for the Jesus quotations seeming to incite violence, nope. Most
> > of those passages refer to the fact that Jesus was and is
> > controversial, and not that he was supporting rebellion or something.
> > 
> > By the way, what the heck kind of Bible do you have? I've never even
> > heard of 3/4 of what you said, and I've done some looking into the
> > controversial stuff in the Bible.
> > 
> > Oh, by the way: A lot of what you said was out of context. If you read
> > Luke 19 from the beginnning, that is actually Jesus speaking in a
> > parable, not speaking as himself. 
> > 
> > It really burns me when people say things to prove their points
> > against the Bible, and it's all out of context. 
> > 
> > Not trying to start an argument, so please don't think I'm bashing on
> > you. I just thought I'd get my say in.

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