RE: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime

["Mike Machin" <mike.machin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry guys, I didn't realise I was sparking such a heated debate!
 
Cheers for now,
Mike
DOC 454
VINLESS
North Devon, UK

________________________________

From: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Martin Gutkowski
Sent: 02 September 2005 21:29
To: doc-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [doc] Ford with gull-wing doors/TRUTH about Avantime


Mike Sumner wrote:

> I saw one at a motor showwhen they'd just come out and had a sit in it 
> and I was frankly appauled by the fact that when the door is shut with 
> the window down you can hear the glass rattle inside the frame.  

Hey, my DeLorean does that! Perhaps what you saw at the show was a true 
prototype.

> Perhaps one day the French will learn how to build cars properly that 
> don't have gearboxes that feel like a ruler in some porridge, steering 
> with no feel that's over-assisted, and doors that clang when closed.

When was the last time you actually drove a modern French car?

I've owned and driven Citroens since day one when I passed my test. I 
will not try and defend the raliability of the earlier hydro-pneumatic 
systems because my old BX was forever going wrong. However the later 
H-reg one we bought for £100 has so far done 12,000 miles and has only 
needed service items to keep it going. It has electric everything 
(pretty much for a car of its age and price range) and everything, bar a 
couple of dash bulbs, still works perfectly. Oh and the clock 
illumination needs thumping now and again!

What I won't hear of is anyone poking at the Xantia. The later facelift 
models are stonkingly good cars. I guarantee, without hesitation, that 
my Xantia  would outshine your BMW on a twisty track - and it's a 
diesel. The Xantia Activa takes more lateral G before letting go than a 
Testarossa. The build quality of my Xantia is good, FWIW - nothing's 
gone wrong yet in the interior at 140,000 mile and counting - well OK 
the robot left its mark on the boot but I -am- impressed with Citroen's 
ability to spot likely "easy-damagable" parts and make them cheap and 
easy to replace. The corner secions on the bumpers for example. I got 
stuffed up the back by an MX5. His bill was £800. mine was a new corner 
section on the bumper for £23. I'm more than happy with it, and I'm sure 
-some- people on this list will tell you everything bad about BMW's.

So in short, don't tar all French cars with the same brush. Just like I 
wouldn't say all BMW's are crap because of the X3. A guy at work bought 
a BWM 320d while I was there and we went out to compare my Xantia with 
his BM. Apart from cruise control (pointless in a diesel IMO) Mine had 
everything the BM did and a lot more besides for £5k les money. The 
engine was a lot less refined too, still being indirect injection with a 
laggy turbo.

One thing's for sure - you don't get many people muttering "bloody 
Citroen/ Renault/ Peugeot drivers" under their breath when yet another 
rep-mobile cuts them up on the motorway. That rep-mobile usually has a 
black, blue and white badge you see.

> As for German Ubersaloons.  Do you not think there's an extremely good 
> reason why people in this country like to buy them?  Because they are 
> subtly stylish as opposed to having angular, hacked at body shapes.  
> The French can try all they like but they will never topple the German 
> dominated executive saloon market until their product is up to scratch.

This simple truth is that Peugeot/ Renault /Citroen have never achieved 
the snob value of the BMW or Audi badge in this country. Once apon a 
time it was justified. Now not so but a person is clever, people are 
stupid. Look across continental qurope and the story's quite different.

>
> Remember the Renault Safrane?  What a success that was against the 3 
> series.

Was it aimed at the 3 series? It's feckin huge - more like a 5 or a 7, 
but let me guess, it was up for 3 series money. Doesn't that mean that 
you could add "overpriced" to anything built in Germany? The Saf 
does/did suffer from electrical faults and overpriced parts, but mark my 
words - it will be a future classic. It's quite the most roomy 
comfortable car I've ever driven, all the toys and leather on par with a 
modern car, except sat-nav, for a car built in 1993. Now if I can just 
fix the air suspension (pump's gone), and driver's seat (memory brain's 
gone), it'll make an excellent courtesy car, having been bought for the 
princely sum of £205. And when it does die, the engine will be recycled 
with a dirty great big turbo and put in a DeLorean. Perhaps when you've 
got yours one day and bring it in for a service, you can drive it home.

Martin
DMC Ltd
#1458
#4426
91 Citroen BX TZD Turbo
99 Xantia HDi Exclusive
94 Renault Safrane RXE V6 Executive


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