Re: [DML] Re: DeLorean Engine w/ regard to 3.0L swap

["Martin Gutkowski" <martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I would give the cheapest price and easiest choice to "fix the existing engine" in a heartbeat

Martin

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Kemp <nkemp@xxxxxxxx>
Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:31:13 
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: DeLorean Engine w/ regard to 3.0L swap

When I replied I was replying in the context of the job at hand and it 
was not intended to imply that it was a simple job. So lets talk about 
it in terms of relative effort:
- Have someone rebuild the existing engine *HARD*
- Replace with a good 2.8 *HARD*
- Replacing with the 3.0L engine as per your comments *HARDER*
- Replacing with something that does not bolt to the bellhousing *HARDEST*

- Rebuild your own engine ... I couldn't decide if it should be *harder 
*or *hardest*.

I've removed the engine & tranny once and the tranny one more time. 
Those are not easy projects in absolute terms.

Bob Villa used to say something like ..."make an estimate of cost & time 
.... double the cost and quadruple the time". It works for car projects 
as well.

FWIW I have a 3.0L in the garage, 18K miles (supposedly), a lot less 
that $350 and the only engine management I'd consider is something that 
I could tune myself and likely it will be a MegaSquirt. The stock engine 
management computer is interesting only in terms of its simplicity... 
after one figures out a good alternative for the trigger wheel (which 
you also need with MegaSquirt) ... but again I'm talking in relative 
terms. I suspect performance would be "sorta adequate maybe".

Nick


Matthew wrote , ----On 6/16/2012 11:26 AM ---------------------------:
>
> I have to smile every time I see the domestic 3.0L PRV referred to as 
> "plug and play!", "drops right in!" and "easy as it gets!" This is 
> almost always from someone who has only made a cursory visual 
> comparison between it and the stock 2.85L engine. I suppose the 
> excitement also comes from the fact that you can find a 3.0L from a 
> junkyard for around $350.
>
> The 3.0L as it came from the donor car uses a special trigger wheel 
> attached to the flexplate for the automatic transmission, which was 
> the only option available. Since you won't be able to use the 
> automatic transmission (not without substantial machine and 
> electronics work, anyway), you can forget about using the stock 3.0L 
> computer. Theoretically you could make a similar trigger ring which 
> would bolt to the DeLorean flywheel, but for all of that effort, 
> trying to use the stock computer would still leave you severely 
> handicapped should you ever need to troubleshoot a rogue sensor, 
> misfire, etc or other weird problem. There is no way to connect a 
> laptop to it to see what's going on. Also bear in mind, that there is 
> no stock ignition or fuel table for the 3.0L available. Until you have 
> the car dyno-tuned (around $400), it will run marginally at best, but 
> will be streetable after some initial seat-of-pants tuning.
>
> Now that we've settled on aftermarket engine management, (which will 
> cost between $300 - $1500+ depending on how much you want to have to 
> screw with it), you can worry about how it "bolts in." This will 
> entail stripping the 3.0L engine down to where you can remove the 
> lower crankcase and swap it with the DeLorean lower crankcase, oil 
> pan, oil pickup, and baffle assembly. This will let you mount it the 
> same way the 2.85L did. Sound easy? Yes, but don't make a mistake. 
> Failure to properly torque the main cap bearings correctly will ruin 
> the engine. Failure to precisely align the lower crankcase with the 
> block (yes, there is "play" in it) will mean that you could crack your 
> bellhousing when attaching it, or have oil leaks from the timing 
> cover. Failure to properly clean and apply anaerobic sealant between 
> the block and lower crankcase will mean oil leaks there, too. Failure 
> to reinstall/replace the rubber o-rings at the oil pickup will mean 
> you never get the proper oil pressure.
>
> Now that the engine is mounted in place, time to drive the car, right? 
> Nope. You don't have spark or fuel control, for one. This is where 
> things get interesting. I have seen many variations, but all will 
> require access to a machine shop ($85/hr here). If you don't mind 
> attaching sensors with hose clamps, or can do your own machining, 
> fine, but otherwise figure about $1200-$2000 in odds and ends that no 
> one ever thinks of at first. This includes several custom brackets, 
> whatever method of getting a trigger you choose (i suggest a crank 
> trigger), new or cleaned injectors, new spark plugs, new plug wires, 
> ignition coil, new fuel line & connectors, ignition module, misc 
> vacuum fittings, numerous sensors, idle speed control valve and 
> mounting bracket, new A/C compressor, new A/C hoses or hose-ends, 
> everything else for R134A, since if not already converted, you may as 
> well do it now, exhaust/intake/oil pan/throttle body gaskets, new 
> serpentine pulley for your stock alternator, new idler 
> pulleys/bearings, new serpentine belt, machining/welding for a custom 
> alternator bracket, misc wires and relays, new water pump & gaskets, 
> rigging up the throttle cable, and we haven't even fabricated the 
> intake and air filter setup yet (no, the stock 3.0L filter box won't 
> fit)!
>
> So now to summarize, you have:
> ~350 (junkyard engine) + 300/1500 (engine computer) + 400 (dyno) + 
> 1200/2000 (misc) = $2250 - $4250
>
> ....and we haven't done any plating/polishing/powder coating, we 
> didn't rebuild the junkyard engine, and we're re-using your old stock 
> exhaust. Without any doubt, there are things that I've missed above, 
> but hopefully it gives you a good idea.
>
> Been there, done that, still fixing it.
>
> Matt
> #1604
>
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@...> wrote:
> >
> > You have to have a crank angle sensor and the original pickup would 
> have been on the transmission flex plate, not part of the engine
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stevedmc@...
> > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:46:54
> > To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com><dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DML] DeLorean Engine
> >
> > Why go mega squirts? You could pop an eagle premier engine in there 
> and leave its stock efi fuel system intact. You would have the benefit 
> of efi without having to program one.
> >
> > --
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > On Jun 15, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Nick Kemp <nkemp@...> wrote:
> >
> > > How about half way between a DeLorean engine and a non-DeLorean 
> engine
> > > .... the 3.0L PRV from the Eagle Premier or Monaco. Mechanically 
> it is a
> > > bolt in. Controls wise you'll have some project work. MegaSquirt 
> is the
> > > first thing that comes to mind for the controls. That said, I've
> > > wondered if the original engine management would work or be easily
> > > adapted to work.
> > >
> > > You've likely thought of the PRV alternative but I just thought I'd
> > > bring it to the surface.
> > >
> > > Wishing I was in FL,
> > > Nick
> > >
> >
>
> 



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