[DML] Re: Modified Trailing Arms For 1/2" Bolts

["jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Socket head in my mind refers to allen socket head. A hex headed bolt is what a socket fits on. I applaud Bill for trying different things. Before we crucify him we should let him finish what he is doing and build some time on it and see how it works. We did that with Toby and now have enough history on his Tabs to see they were good. We might see the same thing with Bill's Bolts. The ultimate would be a Heim joint that could articulate but that would be a very expensive and more extensive modification. A big part of the problem is the bolt is not only in shear. It has significant bending stresses on it too. You need the tensile strength for the shear, you need ductility for the bending. Unfortunately these do not go hand in hand. One affects the other and you must find a compromise between them. A Heim joint would allow the bending movement so the bolt could be optimized for shear and not have the bending stresses directly on the bolt. BTW by increasing the tensile strength it is possible to increase the torque. To do that would necessitate redesigning the rubber bushing with a stronger metal sleeve. Since the sleeve is the limiting factor for torque (and therefore tensile strength) any more tensile strength is pointless unless the bushing is upgraded too. The theory behind torque is that it is a clamping force. You calculate that so that it is above the expected load imposed on the bolt so the bolt never sees the oscillating load. The oscillating load is what fatigues and eventually cause the bolt to fail (in shear). The bending load would seem to be the real problem for the TABs. Increasing tensile strength (and therefore torque) will do nothing for that.
David Teitelbaum
--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "content22207" <brobertson@...> wrote:
>
> Not on this side of the pond:
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cap-screws/=g5qcpr
> http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/product/fasteners/bolts/cap-screws-hex-bolts/_/Navigation?searchterm=&sortby=&sortdir=&searchmode=&refine=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22600001%20Bolts%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22600003%20Cap%20Screws%209and%20Hex%20Bolts%22|~
> 
> Kind of like calling french fries "chips," tractor trailers "lorries," and cigarettes "fags" (and on a woman, the "fanny" is in the back).
> 
> Being an American, posting on an American forum, I of course use American terminology.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> >
> > Cap screw = "socket head"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:04:49 
> > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [DML] Modified Trailing Arms For 1/2" Bolts
> > 
> > They also tend to be socket heads, not hex heads.
> > 
> > Are your bolts Made in Europe, or are they imported?
> > 
> > My ultimate goal is a pair of Made in USA bolts.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Gutkowski" <martin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > M12 cap screws are boggo standard and dirt cheap also. Unfortunately they tend to be only blackened not plated.
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry®
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "content22207" <brobertson@>
> > > Sender: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:58:46 
> > > To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Reply-To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [DML] Modified Trailing Arms For 1/2" Bolts
> > > 
> > > Grade 9+ bolts can be purchased very affordably. Even Grade 12.9's are less than $12 apiece.
> > > 
> > > I do not understand why certain owners are criticizing my latest modification, when by the numbers the bolts I am considering are *STRONGER*, both tensile and yield, than bolts sold by any of the vendors.
> > > 
> > > Fastenal's imported bolts are less desirable in my book than Made in USA Bowmalloys or Lawsons, if for no other reason than because they are undercutting domestic manufacturing. But then again, Fastenal has taken so much heat over using foreign suppliers that they probably are watching them very closely. If I do end up using Fastenals, I will still continue my quest for a pair of 200,000 lbs bolts.
> > > 
> > > Toby's bolts are indeed nice, but they have been NLA for nearly a decade now.
> > > 
> > > Bill Robertson
> > > #5939
> > > 
> > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, stevedmc@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Back in 2000 a meatball sandwich at Subway cost $1.99.  I know this because I was a poor kid just finishing high school. 
> > > > 
> > > > Today the same sanwhich costs $3.49. I know this because I am poor white trash.  
> > > > 
> > > > Based on the laws of subology a set of "Toby TABs" should cost about $131.532663 today.  
> > > > 
> > > > It would be silly for anyone to think they should still cost $75 for a set.  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > 
> > > > On Feb 7, 2012, at 22:51, Martin Gutkowski <martin@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Toby's TABs were heat treated Inconel 718 - you won't easily find that 
> > > > > esp for the price
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 07/02/2012 20:01, content22207 wrote:
> > > > >> I've got Toby's bolts in #5939. Paid $75 for the pair at the time.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> There is a company in your part of the world that advertises itself as an Inconel 718 specialist: http://www.lightningboltandsupply.com/alloys-inconel-718.html
> > > > >> I may contact them just to see what they can do. Toby claimed at the time that his Inconel 718 bolts were nearly 220,000 lbs tensile strength, 200,000 lbs yield strength, but Inconel 718 bar stock does not come up that high in online searches. He included a lab test sheet with his bolts, but mine is long gone (anybody save theirs?).
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Bill Robertson
> > > > >> #5939
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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