[DML] Re: VIN's used as press cars at factory...500 series cars

["cbl1739" <cbl302@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Rich,as far as "on hands" working on the different delorean cars I can respect what you are doing for the delorean community,Just like you I had a love for the Delorean and his cars that started well before even the very first Delorean was a idea in JZD's mind,I started at 17 years old with his "first" real projects which was his Pontiac GTO's and yes I had quite a few of them and like you with the Deloreans, I got totally involved in them.. and this was well before GTO's became high value "investments" I  drag raced them and Rebuilt them from the Ground up,mostly 1966 1967 and 1968 GTO's and a few Ram Air IV's..that was my thing.

Then I moved up to his infamous Chevy Vega's..which  as a spinoff became one of his most powerful "musclecars" with easy installation of V8 power..as a Motion Performance Super Vega..

Which from there I eventually moved up to the Bricklin SV-1(which I still own and in show car condition) and the Delorean...being my first Delorean was in late 1981..which was a stolen/recovered that had been swimming with the fish in Long Island Sound for about 2-3 weeks before it was recovered,meaning when recovered it was totally COVERED from top to bottom with barnacles..like a old ship from the bottom of the ocean..Meaning that I can say with confidence that I was the first private person to Totally dissemble a Delorean to the last nut and bolt. And with a lot of elbow grease got the body and frame..wiring/ interior in new condition..I never completed that car..but got it to the point of needing only final assembly..but for a Delorean that spent almost a month submerged in Atlantic salt waters..it became a car worth finishing.

Then Came vin.16686 that was another "salvaged" Delorean that I rebuilt in 1988..that as far as I know is Still being driven somewhere in the UK today..23 years later and still in showcar shape after I restored it from it's Salvaged Condition  and saved it from becoming someones "parts car" condition.

Then of course there was Vin 570..which had gone though Pj Gradys shop and he wrote it off as Salvage..No offense to Grady he was just doing his job,at that time..it truly would have been big $$$$$$ to restore it..so it went to a Junk yard..where I found it on it's last legs buried deep into the pits of this salvage yard in Connecticut.. the UPPER rear drivers side quarter panel and black body smashed to Bits..the passenger door smashed/creased in... the passenger side  suspension twisted into a pretzel..but the Nose SS panels and Drivers door were the only undamaged panels.. the interior was all there except someone had taken the radio..it was in terrible shape and one step away from being parted and destroyed(I originally bought it as a parts car)and took it apart as SUCH..never having noticed the low Vin Number until I had already dissembled it...when I realized what I had...THEN I started to hunt down a Good frame for it..which I found and traveled to pick it up just south of Chicago Ill. a very Mint and perfect frame,which became vin 570's new frame..only problem was that(stupid me) after doing all the work I realized it was a automatic frame...!!! So Now I was kinda screwed..But I did a little  R&D and developed a Prototype Adapter conversion plate..that as far as everyone was concerned..thought it was a prototype development conversion..ie: that it was a Factory piece..since I used very exotic aerospace metals to develop it( I worked as a Jet Engine machinist,at a Major jet engine manufacturer at the time so I had available scrap pieces to use.

>From someones comment on the condition of vin 570...

Anyway when 570 was sold all parts were given to the buyer..including all SS(good panels) even the bad ones if they wanted them and the complete Drive-line was included..the only thing not included was the radio since that was already missing when I got it,and the "only" negative that I did on 570 was accidentally cracking the windshield when I was hastily trying to "make" the cars look like they were parked in one piece inside my second floor 6 plus garage..when I was in Town Violation and the town threatened me with Jail or heavy fines..if they did a raid and found that I was doing major repairs on cars..which from that point on I stopped working on the Deloreans..and eventually sold them as they stood...I can safely say None of my Deloreans ever saw any outside storage..including my parts cars were stored indoors and covered..in a nutshell I had a Covered INDOOR Time capsule of Deloreans for future owners to enjoy.

PS..There were other Deloreans That I saved and are now on the road that I did not mention..again stored indoors and NEVER any outdoor storage...Nobody should ever store Deloreans outside..it is just unthinkable..and will destroy the car and mold out and destroy the Interior,if you know anyone who does this to deloreans..and you are thinking about buying such a car(this also applies to vettes or any plastic or Fiberglass bodied car)   either you will have a expensive project or a very problematic car,always check the frame if it has been stored outside for a long period.

Claude
1024
Brick 




--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "d_rex_2002" <rich@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting and correct choice of the word "autopsy" with 570.
> 
> VIN...570 was dead when Chris N. began resurrecting this car.
> 
> As for my facts...my information about the 500 series cars is
> based upon close, in-person inspection, and in some cases, photo
> inspection, of over a dozen 500 series cars compared to dozens of
> other early DeLoreans, in the 600, 700, 800, 900 and 1000 series.
> 
> Unlike CBL's "guess" that all the early cars did not have similar
> characteristics (frame, underbody, etc.), the inspections prove
> otherwise.  And although there will never be an opportunity to
> check "all" of the early cars, many of them appear to be similar.
> 
> Frames on most of the 500 series cars were not unique to only the
> 500 series, and cars as late as 1000 series, including 1001 and
> 1077 have frames with reinforcement plates and additional welding
> under the engine cradle areas.  Are all of these "clones" of 502?
> 
> Luckily, CBL did not do an autopsy of 502, so there is no way CBL
> can say 502 is exactly the same as how 570 was (at one time).
> 
> Rob Grady and Chris N. are the only two technicians that worked
> on both 502 and 570 in the past 30 years, and although I have
> done extensive visual inspections of both cars while at PJ Grady,
> I feel Rob and Chris are best equipped to relate any comparision.
> 
> As far as condition and overall appearance, VIN...570 was closest
> to VIN...562 (as of the last viewing of both), while VIN...583
> had several original "engineering test parts" on the car that have
> not been identified on any 500 series car or any other DeLorean.
> 
> These 500 series and early DeLorean findings have been compiled
> and presented to the DeLorean community in presentations and
> seminars at the DeLorean Car Show events in the past and they are
> most certainly open to critique and any other early car findings.
> 
> As for paperwork "proving" something, one way or the other, there
> are several DMC documents that have been proven wrong, such as the
> inventory memos that were created identifying DeLoreans located at
> the QAC's at the time of shutting down DMC in 1982.  Errors that
> were possibly due to haste, indicated more 500 series cars were
> automatics, when in fact, more had always been manual cars.
> 
> Documentation is great to have and it is often extremely helpful
> to confirm original build specifications, but inspections are still
> a more accurate means of comparing builds and determining actual
> conditions of DeLoreans, for both original or restored condition.
> 
> Later,
> Rich W.
> 
> --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "cbl1739" <cbl302@> wrote:
> >
> > whew...easy on the attack...First what do you base your facts on...
> > 
> > All I said was that 570..had ALL the same build items/characteristics that were incorporated into the very early cars(as in comparing it to how 502 was built on the assembly line)including the EXACT build frame,with the quirky welds and rivets,in a nutshell it had 100% build-up as compared to vin 502...
> > 
> > If anybody should know vin 570 and how it was constructed / materially built from the factory..that would be me,and not you..since you did not do a "autopsy" to claim Your beliefs... I did a autopsy on it to know what was there and what was not there..and have a right to my claims to comparing my final results as to how vin 502 was built(minus the Legend turbo stuff) they WERE EXACT Clones in every way...top to bottom from the factory..and the weird part was 570 had a earlier build date than 502..
> > 
> > Again NOT saying that 570 could be any other car..but it COULD BE suspect..just as YOU make claim that  vin 500 might have become a Wooler-Hodec car...both being of suspect nature/source..
> > 
> > I judged my facts,being that 570's construction was built at the time with clone perfect specifications,as the first few cars off the assembly line.Can you verify your claims about a Wooler-Hodec car having a 100% build specifications as vin 500-502..
> > I could...and I was amazed to find 570 had EVERYTHING..that was exact as the very early cars..
> > 
> > Either it was how ALL these early cars were built..(I don't think so)or it points out facts that 570 could have possibly had life under "another vin" before it "acquired" vin # 570..again no paper proof..just how it was built proof. Bottom line..All the 500 Vin Cars had suspect lives...and neither You or Me can say yes or No to anything about these early cars..except look at whatever paperwork is available and HOW SIMILAR or clone perfect the builds were in relation to matching up to vin# 500-502. 
> > 
> > Claude
> > Brick
> > 1024
>




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